114. Who Would Jesus Bomb? Questioning War Through Song with Jordan Smart

About this Episode

Musician Jordan Smart shares his journey from growing up in a religious household in Ohio to becoming a touring musician. He discusses his early disillusionment with the church, his deep connection to music, and how punk rock influenced his worldview. The conversation centers around Jordan's song "Who Would Jesus Bomb?", which caught Craig's attention and led to this discussion. Jordan explains that while he isn't vocally anti-war, his frustrations with how religious traditions can be manipulated for propaganda inspired him to write the song.

Jordan reflects, "I was raised to believe Jesus loves everyone, but seeing how that message gets twisted to justify violence really pushed me to write this song." The episode delves into the troubling support for war among Christians, the manipulation by governments, and the importance of compassion and humanity. Jordan also highlights his project, Songs Not Bombs, which raises funds for Palestinian children.

Craig and Jordan discuss poignant lines from the song, such as, "Would Jesus bomb the atheist, the Muslim, or the Jew?" and "Would you still believe in Jesus if you found out he was brown?" These lines challenge listeners to reconsider their views on war, politics, and faith. This episode is a thought-provoking listen for anyone interested in these critical issues.

Connect with Jordan Smart:

• Jordan Smart Music on Instagram

• Songs Not Bombs on Bandcamp - All Proceeds Go to Palestine

• Songs Not Bombs on Instagram

Episode Timestamps:

Timestamps:

(00:45) Jordan's Background

• Jordan shares his upbringing in Ohio and his religious family background

• His journey with music, starting from a young age

• Background with Christianity and anarchy

(02:00) Music as a Form of Protest

• Discussion on Jordan's project "Songs Not Bombs"

• Efforts to raise funds for the Palestinian Children's Relief Fund (PCRF)

• The impact of music in processing and responding to world events

• Anti-War Sentiments

• Jordan's long-standing anti-war beliefs were influenced by punk rock

• Reflections on the current state of global conflicts

(7:27) The Power of Music

• Craig and Jordan discuss the emotional impact of music

• Music as a medium to express complex feelings and ideas

• The ability of music to resonate with diverse audiences

(9:40) Christianity and War

• The troubling support for the war among some Christians

• The disconnect between Jesus' teachings and modern Christian behavior

• Reflections on the pro-war stance of certain Christian groups

(11:59) Generational Perspectives

• The younger generation's growing disillusionment with the current system

• The potential for the younger generation to drive change

• The impact of social media and 24-hour news cycles on youth

• Political Disillusionment

• Failures of both major political parties in the U.S.

• The need for a new approach to governance and societal issues

• Personal experiences with political disillusionment

(16:45) Personal and Political Pushback to Jordan’s Song “Who Would Jesus Bomb?”

• Jordan shares experiences with pushback from friends and family

• The challenges of speaking out on controversial issues

• The importance of staying true to one's beliefs.

(20:51) Echo Chambers and Authenticity

• The importance of breaking out of echo chambers

• Staying authentic and true to one's message

• The impact of authenticity on audience engagement

(24:26) The Role of the Military

• Discussion on military recruitment and its implications

• The true threats to freedom and liberty

• Reflections on the U.S. military's global impact

(30:43) Compassion and Humanity

• Emphasizing the need for compassion towards all people

• The interconnected nature of various social justice issues

• The role of compassion in creating a better world.

34:59 Challenging Beliefs

• Jordan's song as a tool to challenge deeply held beliefs

• The importance of questioning and re-evaluating one's views

• The impact of music in provoking thought and discussion

(39:40) Personal Journeys

• Craig shares his journey from neoconservatism to Christian anarchism

• The influence of early church writings on his views

• The role of personal experiences in shaping beliefs

(43:17) The Influence of Social Media

• The role of social media in shaping public opinion

• The dangers of misinformation and propaganda

• The impact of social media on political and social views

(47:27) Interconnected Issues

• The interconnected nature of various social justice issues

• The importance of addressing these issues collectively

• The role of music and activism in highlighting these connections.

(52:19) Political Theater

• The manipulation of public opinion by the ultra-wealthy ruling class

• The need for unity among the oppressed.

• The impact of political theater on societal divisions

(57:52) Blonde Hair and Blue Eyes: Jesus and Race

• The significance of recognizing Jesus' true background

• The implications of Jesus' ethnicity for modern Christianity

• The importance of challenging racial stereotypes in religious contexts.

(1:00:13) Encouragement and Support

• Jordan shares the overwhelming support he has received for his music

• The importance of continuing to speak out on important issues

• Reflections on the impact of his song "Who Would Jesus Bomb?"

(1:03:21) Final Thoughts

• Craig encourages Jordan to keep leaning into his message

• The importance of making a difference through music and activism

• Reflections on the need for boldness and authenticity in advocacy.

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111. God vs MAGA: The Dangers of Mixing Christianity with American Nationalism

About this Episode

What happens when political figures are compared to religious icons? Join us on the Bad Roman Podcast as we explore this provocative question with our special guest, singer-songwriter Josh Nichols. In this episode, we dive into the unsettling comparisons between Donald Trump and Jesus, especially during election season on social media.

Comparing Donald Trump to Jesus is not just misguided—it's deeply problematic. Through his powerful song "God vs MAGA," Josh challenges the troubling idolatry of political figures and sheds light on the toxic rhetoric that equates Trump with Christ. We'll explore how these false comparisons harm our faith and divert our focus from the true essence of Jesus' teachings.

American nationalism has often cloaked itself in the guise of Christianity, but what does this mean for our spiritual integrity? We dissect the disturbing tendency to merge faith with national pride, examining how this threatens to turn patriotism into idolatry. Josh, through his song "God vs MAGA," unpacks the manipulation of religious beliefs by political entities and how such actions lead to a misguided faith in political leaders. Together, we scrutinize the parallels between Trump's portrayal and the biblical figure Barabbas, emphasizing the crucial need to discern truth amidst the political noise.

We highlight the conflict between personal rights and biblical principles of humility and selflessness by unpacking the theological implications and contrasting earthly citizenship with eternal values. Josh’s poignant lyrics, including the line "God doesn't want to make America great again," serve as a stark reminder that our allegiance should be to God's kingdom, not a nation.

Critical thinking and independent thought are crucial in navigating the noise of corporate media and political propaganda. We discuss the liberating power of relinquishing control to faith and how critical thinking fosters confident, independent opinions. From addressing the idolatry of political beliefs to critiquing the hypocrisy within pro-life stances, this episode is a call to elevate our faith above nationalism and strive for a greatness rooted in God's infinite and unconditional love, not a nation-state’s past.

We wrap up with personal reflections and broader societal critiques, highlighting the tension between national identity and spiritual integrity. Join us for this eye-opening dialogue that underscores the ultimate greatness found in God's kingdom and His unconditional love.

Connect with Josh Nichols:

• Tik Tok

• Spotify

• Apple Music

• Personal Instagram 

• Josh's Band - More Than This Instagram

• Tidal

• YouTube

Episode Timestamps:

Timestamps:

(00:00:02) God vs MAGA

• Comparison of Donald Trump to Jesus and its implications

• Insights from Josh Nichols on political manipulation

• Analysis of Trump's portrayal and parallels with Barabbas

• Discussion on Josh's song "God vs MAGA"

(00:09:37) Jesus, Nationalism, and Idolatry

• Examination of the blending of Christianity and American nationalism

• Discussion on the theological implications of national pride

• Insights into the idolatry of associating Jesus with American symbols

• Analysis of the contrast between earthly citizenship and the kingdom of God

(00:22:52) Navigating Critical Thinking in Society

• Importance of critical thinking and relinquishing control to faith

• Impact of corporate media on public opinion

• Advocacy for independent sources over divisive media channels

• How critical thinking fosters confidence in beliefs without alienating others

(00:32:38) America and Christianity

• The intersection of faith and patriotism and potential conflicts

• Discussion on political beliefs as modern idols

• Reference to the song "Clear the Stage" and the dangers of elevating anything above God

• Addressing hyperpolitical theology and the importance of understanding

(00:42:49) American Hypocrisy and Eternal Greatness

• Tension between American freedom and spiritual constraints

• Church responses to government mandates during the COVID-19 pandemic

• Bad Roman Episodes on Covid

• Examination of political actions versus genuine Christian values

• Discussion on hypocrisy within pro-life stances and national identity versus spiritual integrity

(00:51:42) Greatness in God and Music

• True greatness in God's kingdom versus making America great again

• Role of music in glorifying God and addressing faith issues

• Josh's passion for creating a community discussing faith, church hurt, and belief

• Emphasis on respectful dialogue within diverse Christian beliefs

(01:02:15) Faith in Modern Society

• Challenges of maintaining faith in a rapidly changing world

• Influence of social media on religious beliefs and practices

• The role of the church in addressing contemporary social issues

• Strategies for fostering a supportive faith community

(01:12:03) Balancing Faith and Personal Beliefs

• Personal stories of reconciling faith with modern values

• The impact of personal experiences on religious views

• Navigating disagreements within the church community

• Encouragement for open-mindedness and growth in faith

(01:22:48) Future of Christianity in America

• Predictions on the evolution of Christianity in a diverse society

• The potential for interfaith dialogue and cooperation

• The role of young people in shaping the future of the church

• Final thoughts on hope and perseverance in faith

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96. Christian-Palestinian: Unveiling the Obscured Narrative with Daniel Bannoura

About this Episode

Get ready for an insightful and heart-wrenching journey as we chat with Daniel Benora, a Christian Palestinian, who gives us an inside look into the longstanding conflict between Israel and Palestine. With a direct line to the ground reality, Daniel candidly shares the pain and terror experienced by his friends and family in Gaza due to Israeli attacks. Hear the unfiltered narrative of Palestinians, both Christian and Muslim, who have been overshadowed in the Western world, as we delve into the complexities of this ongoing strife.

Daniel courageously unravels the obscured narrative of Palestinians, both Christian and Muslim, demonstrating the importance of understanding the dynamics of this ongoing strife. How do we stay informed when the Western media narrative leans heavily in favor of one side? The conversation deepens as we probe into the biased portrayal of the Middle East in the media, exposing its racist undertones. Together with Daniel, we dissect the colonial mentality and its aftermath, scrutinizing how it frames the Middle East as backward and violent. We also delve into the implications of Zionism, the British Empire's role in Jewish migration to Palestine, opening up the discussion to the way it's used to justify violence against Palestinians. 

As we draw toward the end of our conversation, we venture into the stormy waters of violence, faith, and pacifism within the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Daniel reveals the inspiring ways Palestinian Christians channel faith into nonviolent resistance against injustice. We wrap up by challenging the misconceptions surrounding God and his people, urging Christians to seek truth, justice, and love over violence and ignorance. 

 Join us as we reveal how the media, the US government, and the Church perpetuate this idea, all the while emphasizing the importance of nuance in understanding this conflict. Here's a chance to challenge your perspectives and possibly transform your understanding of the Israeli-Palestinian plight.

Connect with Daniel:

• Across the Divide Podcast

• Google Docs Resource

• Listen to Daniel on Theology in the Raw

Episode Timestamps:

(00:02) The Israel-Palestine Occupation

Daniel shares the injustice and violence Palestinians have faced, highlighting the terror and pain caused by Israeli attacks on Christian and Muslim Palestinians.

(10:29) Understanding Gaza and Palestinian Identity

Daniel shares his family's 13-generation history in Bethlehem, discussing the plight of Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Palestine.

(14:26) Christian Palestinian Identity and Ignorance

Daniel Benora's Christian Palestinian experience, ignorance and apathy in the West, and the complicity of media and pastors in creating and perpetuating this ignorance are explored.

(18:39) Western Media's Middle East Bias

We examine Orientalism, Palestinian Christians, and the colonial mentality of the Western world to challenge racism in the Middle East.

(27:34) Influence on Israeli-Palestinian Occupation by Politics, Media, Religion

Zionism's history, anti-Semitism, British Empire, violence against Palestinians, media, US government, Church, and justice for Palestinians discussed.

(39:59) Violence and Pacifism in Israeli-Palestinian Occupation

We examine Hamas' motivations, self-defense ideology, Israel's surprise, and faith identity in a violent context.

(53:13) The Palestinian Christian Perspective

Palestinian Christians discuss nonviolent resistance, US imperialism, preferential option for the poor, and the way of the cross.

(58:41) Misrepresentation of God and His People

We question God's representation in war, reject the distinction between Jews and non-Jews, and explore faith, not lineage, for righteousness and God's love.

(01:03:08) Jesus and the Old Testament

Daniel discusses Christ-centered Bible reading, repentance for violence, and researching the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

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95. Was Jesus Palestinian? with Jeffery Stevens

About this Episode

Tune in for an insightful conversation with Jeffrey Stevens, an independent journalist and director of the Azarius Project, as we take a hard look at the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory and the impact it's having on the Christian and other communities within these borders. Hear firsthand about the misinformation circulating among Christian Americans and learn about Jeffrey's own transformation from being pro-Israel to acknowledging the impossibility of supporting both Israel and the sanctity of life simultaneously. 

If you’re one of us, or you’re new here, you should know that there has always been a personal journey at the heart of The Bad Roman Project. It’s been one that's demanded a complete overhaul of previous beliefs. A path paved with discomfort while challenging long-held perceptions and demanding an honest reassessment of Christian values. As always, there's so much more to the story than what's on the surface and what’s important is that we talk about it. 

While mainstream media often skews the reality on the ground, our conversation challenges those narratives and scrutinizes the role of the US and Israeli governments in perpetuating the inhumane policies of the occupation. In this uncompromising discourse, we're asking the hard questions, discussing who gets to define terrorism, examining the treatment of Palestinians (both Muslim and Christian), and unlocking the transformative power of relationships to remedy bias in our perspectives.

But our journey doesn't stop there. In this episode, we're bringing the focus back home, because change starts on your doorstep. We discuss the importance of evangelizing in our own neighborhoods and fostering a personal relationship with Jesus. Be prepared for a lively debate on what Jesus' stance would be of his birthland today and the recognition that the world is indeed larger than just the United States. So, buckle up and come along for an enlightening, perhaps life-altering ride with us. 

Connect with Jeffery:

Catholic Workers Project

Azarias Project

Arab American News

Catholic Wordsmith

Episode Timestamps:

1:05 Correct framing as the illegal Occupation vs. the Israel-Palestine Conflict

• Joe Chadburn Episode

• Importance of independent journalism

• Importance of reframing the language we use to describe a topic

• Unpacking beliefs about Israel in Christian upbringing

• Used to cover Vatican news until 2009 began covering Israel-Palestine 

4:52 Who is Jeffery Stevens?

• Arab American News

• Director of Azarias Project

• Grew up: pro-life, pro-Israel Christian

• Difference between pro-life and anti-abortion

• Blood Brothers Book by Palestinian Catholic Priest, Elias Chacour (Author), David Hazard (Author), James Baker (Foreword) 

• Jesus is Palestinian, not Israeli

• When Bible speaks of Israel it’s referring to Christians not the Israeli government

8:08 Conviction of USA and Israel as the “good guys” against terrorism

• Post-9/11 

• You can respect veterans and still be critical of USA’s imperialism 

• Jesus Christ would not approve of what is happening in the Middle East no matter who is doing it

• Governments can often be found to act more in accordance to the definition of terrorism than those we call the name

• Military bases and proximity to oil reserves

• Syria

• Smedley Butler (Joe Chadburn)

• French Concrete Company sued for assisting ISIS — millions of dollars the US government kept it

• Should Christians care about what is happening in the birthplace of Christianity?

15:16 Where the End of the Earth Begins article on The Catholic Wordsmith

• Acts 1:8

• Popular Christian evangelical verse, we seek to evangelize in frogmen lands and forget to do so in our own neighborhood

• Christians only on Sundays?

• “Jesus would have to cross 15 Israeli checkpoints and a 30-foot wall to get to Bethlehem”

• Americans fail to understand what “occupation” means

• Palestinian Christian population over time and occupation’s influence on their decline

• Israeli Occupation forces and desire for all Jewish state, turning Al_Asqua Mosque into a temple

• Bible bans Jews from 3rd Temple

• Far-right drive

• Texas cows flown to Israel

28:10 Who is funding Israel?

• Palestine of all religions suffer at the hands of this funding under an occupation

• Trump and Israel

33:44 Jenin [on] the Fourth from Arab American News

• West Bank, Refugee Camps

• “Terrorist hot-spot” vs. resistance fighters and patriots

• Ron Paul

• Blowback

• Boston Tea Party was not peaceful

• The American Revolution

• Were we better off before?

• Jesus’s disciples

• Writing about Old Testament and current affairs

• Azarias Project

• Book of Tobit, Archangel Raphael

48:51 The World is Bigger than the USA

• Yemen and Saudi 

• Saudi Golf Tour

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78. The Role of Propaganda in Abusive Relationships with Derek Kreider

About this Episode

Derek Kreider, host of pacifist podcast “The Fourth Way,” joins Craig for a discussion on his latest season about propaganda. What is propaganda? Who propagandizes? And what benefits do they receive from doing so? From personal relationships, church institutions and the state, propaganda plays a part in how people organise themselves and Derek and Craig discuss them all.

The conversation starts with institutionalised abuse within the Southern Baptist Convention and how poorly churches deal with allegations of sexual abuse. Every year allegations of sexual misconduct are the church’s biggest problem. Even higher-ups who are not abusers are incentivized to cover up for underlings abusing their authority to keep the money flowing. We also learn that propaganda is not just what is communicated, but also includes leaving out important information, in this case to avoid “tarnishing God’s reputation” or other reasonable-sounding excuses.

Next, they discuss state propaganda. The state is basically an abuser who feels the need to control through the usual methods: charisma, controlling the flow of information and if these things fail then resorting to violence. Finally, Craig gets vulnerable about his abusive second marriage, the isolation and altercations, ending the episode with a note of hope for those who believe they are stuck in a situation of domestic violence: it is possible to escape.

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Episode Timestamps:

3:08 - Who is Derek Kreider?

• Raised conservative with Christian education

• Likes apologetics

• Currently in Romania as a missionary

4:22 – What is causing the rise in atheism? 

• Institutionalising religion ruins it

• There’s a lot of people leaving the church in America, but it’s the institutions they are leaving

• Church could also be people gathered in Jesus’ name

9:19 – The Fourth Way Podcast

• 2016 and the election of Donald Trump made Derek want to start a podcast

• The ends don’t justify the means, but the evangelical community tried to justify Trump’s actions

• Consequentialism

• Watched a video on pacifism

• Pacifism works better than grasping for power in the political realm

• Made the podcast to explore his own Christian reasoning

• The name comes from Walter Wink’s “The Third Way” but Pacifism is a fourth way, not fight, flight or freeze, but being active in pacifism

• Families who allow their loved ones killers live on death row rather than have them killed have changed those people

• Pacifism requires a whole lot more creativity to solve problems

• It brings the humanity back to the killer 

• There is nothing in the writings of the early church that indicate they were not pacifists

20:06 – What’s happening with the Southern Baptists?

• Recently it has come to light that some of their prominent leaders have abused people and other leaders have covered it up

• Then asked others to be silent about it

• Rachael Denhollander – What is a Girl Worth?

• Famous for coming forward after being abused by a doctor

• Talks about how terrible the church was at dealing with that

• Became an advocate for abuse within the Southern Baptist Church

• Although it’s not specific to the Southern Baptist Church

• Sexual allegations are the biggest problems for church every year

• When people take advantage of their positions of authority it doesn’t look like Jesus

• There should not be flawed human beings being given power in the church

• “It shall not be so among you”

• Individuals must take personal responsibility for their actions

• A lot of times power ends up corrupting people

• The Southern Baptist Convention also had leadership that covered up abuse

• In order to keep their own power

• So they don’t loose funding or control

• Do it in the name of Jesus – don’t want Him to look bad

• This is simple consequentialism

• After studying conspiracies for a year Derek thinks lots of people can hide a conspiracy

• This is not a uniquely church thing, people are corrupt

• A new structure would be full of people doing the same thing

• Maybe people are pulling back from the church because it looks just like government politics

• Sometimes members of churches solely blame individuals for problems that may be systemic

• Pastors are celebrities not shepherds, leading to people abusing power

35:09 – Propaganda, the state and abusers

• Politicians are going to go wherever the funding comes from

• This is a structural problem

• Propaganda is 100% intentional

• But its often done by people who are sincere about their cause

• A jerk on a power trip is easier to disbelieve

• Everyone propagandises

• Derek educates his kids therefore by some definitions he propagandises them

• We use the word for education that we don’t like

• In the Southern Baptists the higher-ups silence the news media that’s also propaganda

• Because it shapes your understanding

• The higher-ups say they prefer to highlight the good and leave out the bad

• It’s propaganda to leave information out

• Its an intricate web of self-justification and gaslighting

• Trump was worse on the second amendment than Obama

• Jacques Ellul – Propaganda and The Technological Society

• Propaganda produces extreme polarization

• And other quotes that could have been written yesterday

• Propaganda seeks to isolate individuals

• Repeats simple content

• Creates a problem to resolve then offers itself as a saviour

• Abusers do the same thing

• Craig’s second marriage was abusive like this

• Derek’s episode about marital abuse: Propaganda and Domestic Abusers

• You can escape an abusive relationship and God won’t be offended

• Things escalate when the abuser feels like they are out of control

• Craig’s second wife threw knives and had him arrested

• Then moved in next door when he left

• Its different in every situation

• David Graber – The Dawn of Everything

• Talks about how the state functions

• The state is basically an abuser who needs control

• Violence is risky but effective if you are stronger

• Information can also be used to control

• Charisma can be used to control others, this is the most effective

• States work like this too, when charisma (stories) stops working then they try manipulation then violence

• Abusers isolate their victims

1:00:21 – The conspiracy of corporatism

• How do we discern truth and how are beliefs formed?

• How was propaganda implemented?

• A 70 episode series on propaganda could have been much larger

• Corporations and businesses propaganda

• How do they do it?

• What effect does it have?

• What should you look out for?

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61. Hope of the Kingdom: How God Wins with Jonathan Cannone

About this episode

Jonathan Cannone is a Jesus-follower, writer, homesteader, teacher, and Kingdom worker. He wrote an article for The Bad Roman blog, The Dream of the City to Come: Do You Not Trust God?, about the Kingdom coming, both now and in the unknown future. 

As Christians, we have hope. We are called to live and act peacefully, and doing this in all of our pursuits may help bring about the Kingdom to our own little corner of the world. Those in power now will not win in the end. God wins eternity. We have to remember this and take a long view of time, a God-view of time.

We know Who wins and we are on His side, all that is required of us is to continuously choose to remain on that side and not fall into the ways of this world and the false promises of man-made power and state-sanctioned violence.  We know the rules of our side, Jesus showed us and told us, and it is our job, as Christians to continuously submit to our faith in his message, even when we must sometimes must obey unjust powers in pursuit of Christ.

Take this episode as a message of encouragement: politicians may seem powerful, but Jesus is the true King. As a Christain you are an ambassador for Heaven, don’t forget to act like it!

Episode Timestamps:

4:10 The Dream of the City to Come: Do You Not Trust God?

• Based on a lifelong obsession with the idea that Jesus’ Kingdom is eternal, and everything else is temporary

  • When Jonathan was little, he loved Bible stories about the unchanging Kingdom

  • And he just taught 4 months of adult Sunday school on it

5:41 Handling [professing] Christians who just aren’t getting it

• To see change, we’ve gotta follow Christ

  • He is our King

• Others are still where we were a decade ago

  • Still clinging to hope in the government

• Do we get outwardly frustrated with them or handle them with velvet gloves?

  • Craig explodes and starts talking about Yemen

    • Gets blank stares

      • It may be coming on a little strong

    • But, “People are dying because of our belief in the state as Christians.” - Craig

  • The vast majority of people in the world claim Christianity

    • If they’d stop believing in the state and follow Jesus, the difference would be huge

• “About 10 years ago… I just completely surrendered my life to God and said, ‘You run things; I'm not good at it.’” - Jonathan

  • Before and after that point, people were dropping bread crumbs to get him where he is now

  • Humor and Scripture led him to understand

    • Also, a wise elder who was very excited about the Kingdom and not at all about the state

  • You don’t realize you’re being red-pilled at the time

  • It takes humility and gentleness to break through to doubters

9:05 It’s so obvious

• It’s so much in our faces that it feels like the media is mocking us

• But somehow, the guy next to us still doesn’t get it

• Craig’s coworker commented that they’re trying to get us into another war with Russia/Ukraine

  • So he had to tell him about the war we’re already in Yemen

    • The guy had to understand Trump’s role in it

      • And the lack of corporate media reporting

    • The guy’s eyes kind of glazed over, but his brain wheels were turning

      • Even if it’s unconscious, the seed gets planted

• There’s just so much information to give the normies, it’s hard to know where to start

  • So many different operations and people

    • Henry Kissinger

• People have already made up their minds how to live and will not deviate

  • Even if gas goes up to $8/gal, they’ll still buy it from the same place like they always have

  • We make choices based on what’s cheapest

    • The cost has already been paid somewhere else

  • “We’ve already made up our mind how we’re gonna live, and the narrative fills in the gaps for us so that it makes sense.” - Jonathan

  • The way we live is insane

    • What we do to the earth

    • What we do to third-world countries

    • What we do to ourselves

    • But we tell ourselves stories to help us sleep at night

• So, the goal is to share the Kingdom story

  • Have everyone marinate in it until it is our story

  • It will change people until they look at the way we live and say, “This is insane. Jesus would never do this.”

13:28 What if Jesus was walking around?

• Imagine 2000 years ago, He might have been walking around with His head in His hands lamenting how people were living

  • Perhaps even more so today

  • He’s shaking His head at us collectively and saying, “You’re not getting it.”

  • Does He get frustrated?

    • He saw the multitudes as sheep without a shepherd

      • And felt compassion

      • He didn’t ask why they were stupid or tell them to stop following Him around

    • We ought to follow His example and not be brash

      • Steven from AnarchoChristian is good at this

        • His show feels like Sunday school taught by an expert

16:33 Satan’s kingdom

• If Satan offered the earthly kingdoms to Jesus, that means he owns them

• People always argue, “If we get enough Christians in office, all will be fixed.”

  • No. Who’s behind this kingdom? 

    • Whose kingdom are you claiming to be part of?

      • You cannot serve both

    •  Is the person lying, stealing, destroying, murdering, and enslaving?

      • That’s not anything like what my King does

20:14 Jesus is King

• Even over those who don’t believe in Him

• Why don’t we take it seriously?

  • Americans don’t know what monarchy is like

    • Closest we have is CEOS, oligarchs, and generals

    • But we want a king

      • People talk about presidents like they should be kings

        • “They're not wanting a representative. They're wanting a king to tell their enemy how to live… [but] they end up telling you how to live too.” - Craig

      • “[Trump] would love to sit in your living room and tell you exactly how to live… I've got a King in my house. And guess what? You're a Christian. You've already got a King too.” - Craig

23:52 Prophets in the Church

• Very few Christians can see through the facade of how the world works 

  • They have the gift of prophecy

• Prophets are not well received; they are so tired of trying and not getting anywhere 

• Most have either

  • Shut their mouths or

  • Left the church

• Most Christians are genuine and trying

  • They can only do what they know to do

• So, to start a conversation, we must first find out where they’re at

25:26 Arguing about authority, aka power

• People always want to say that anyone with power got it from God

  • Which means they’re on His side

  • Might = right?

  • The winner of a political race has God’s blessing

• According to the Bible, power is not about winning

  • Jesus says to lose your life in order to find Life

  • Submission 

    • Paul says slaves need to submit to their masters

      • But of course, they do; they’re slaves! 

      • That’s their job

      • It’s like Paul is saying, “You are the one with the authority to live the way that your King shows you to live.” - Jonathan

      • When you voluntarily submit to someone, they don't win.

        • That relationship is broken and should not be that way

        • You're the one with the power

      • "Everybody knows that you’re not supposed to have slaves, but everybody thinks that is great to have kings." - Jonathan

      • It doesn't matter how many bombs they have

        • They don't win

28:31 Handcuffs

• Jesus promised they'll arrest us and bring us before kings

  • And He will fill our mouths with His words

• If you're in handcuffs, let God use you

  • Allow them to treat you poorly

• "[Submission] doesn't mean you're obeying; there's a reason you're in handcuffs." - Craig

  • Rosa Parks didn’t obey their laws

  • The early church likewise acted without violence

    • It changes people's hearts

      • People come to Christ when they see us respond peacefully

• People claim slavery is over

  • But right now is like an Oprah Winfrey moment

    • “YOU get to be a slave and YOU get to be a slave…”

  • We are all enslaved through taxes

• “Why are you going to put 'em back in power? You're complaining about 'em, they're stealing your money. They're taking that money and going and using it to kill people in other countries and kill people in this country. Stop voting. Stop encouraging the beast. Follow Jesus Christ. You say you're a Christian. Let's do it. Let's follow Jesus Christ.” - Craig

32:28 Principalities

•  We don’t need that kind of power

  • Jesus turned down Satan’s offer to worship him in exchange for power over earthly kingdoms

  • He already had the power He needed

    • Worshiping God gives us power

• When we respond with humility, we remind the principalities of who won

33:26 What Jesus saved us from

• American churches focus only on sin and Hell

• He also defeated the principalities who has been holding humans captive

• DEATH

  • We're going to be raised again like Him

  • We’ll have new, glorified bodies

34:41 We don’t have to envy those in power because they’re the losers

• They’re rebellious 

  • Haven’t confessed Jesus as Lord

    • Whoever does so now will be the firstfruits of the new world

• Their power is only transitory

35:30 Freedom

• Comes from Jesus; not the state!

• Don’t fear those who can only kill the body and not the soul

  • If the worst they can do is kill us, and we don’t fear death, we’re free

• It’s a major choice

  • Can you risk facing what the early church did?

    • Crucified and rocks thrown at them and pulled apart and their heads chopped off and drowned and everything set on fire…

• Consequences for those who compromise with the world

  • If you try to ally with the powers here to avoid persecution, you will face judgment from them

  • “You can't skip the consequences; you just have to choose which ones sound worse.” - Jonathan

38:07 Identity in a nation

• If we identify with or pledge our allegiance to a nation or political party or worship their military, we are telling Jesus we don’t want His Kingdom of peace

  • Just like the Israelites asking for a king

    • God told them they were rejecting Him

  • Pushing for earthly political power is rejecting the Kingdom

    • Rejecting the perfect King we already have

      • No stealing or killing

      • Actually does have our best interests at heart

      • Wants us to have fruitful lives without fear

      • “The state wants you to be afraid. That's how they keep their authority.” - Craig

39:53 Allegiance

• Giving your heart promises everything you have

• Pledging your allegiance doesn’t just mean 

  • “I’m glad to be in the club” or

  • “So happy you’re not worse”

  • It means

    • “If you go to war, I'll do whatever you tell me”

    • “My resources and my thoughts are for you”

• If any part of someone’s life is dedicated to the state, they have not surrendered to Jesus

42:05 Negative energy

• The rulers feed off of negative energy

  • Whatever violence or hate you use, it will be amplified and returned to you

  • Beat them by choosing peace

    • Increase their violence by reacting violently

    • Romans 12

      • Love your enemies

      • Feed them if they’re hungry

      • Comes before Romans 13 about respecting authority

      • How much happier and more reasonable are people who are well fed?

44:00 Our home is yet to come

• Hebrews 13:14

• It’s a mystery, and it’s supposed to be

• Let’s live with anticipation rather than trepidation about the unknown future

• Once we get there, we won’t remember the troubles we had leading up to it

• It should be exciting!!

• Let’s look forward to it with childlike wonder

• Just the idea that this troubled world is going away should make us glad

• We’ll see Him as He is

• We’ll be made like Him

• All the nations will come together in this new reality

  • They’ll collectively ask Jesus how to live

    • And go home and beat their swords into plowshares

47:03 For now

• We are the representation of Jesus on Earth

  • Imperfect

    • All we can say is that our lives are being changed by being part of this project to change the world

  • We believe His plan will come to pass

    • It’s inevitable

      • You don’t have to wonder who’s gonna win

• “There’s something coming, and it’s way better than what’s going on right now… and it’s certainly not through the state.” - Craig

• Our family is in every nation, tribe, and tongue on Earth

  • Then our family is being bombed

    • They are also doing the bombing

    • It’s not about good guys and bad guys

      • It’s that any person could be or become our family

• People are watching us for an example of Christ

  • Let’s hope we are not a stumbling block

  • Consistency is a strong statement

    • Not wavering back and forth between Jesus and politicians

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60. God or Government - Who's in Charge of the World? with Pete Rollo of Rival Nations & Abby Cleckner

About this episode

In this episode, Craig and his better podcast half, Abby Cleckner, are joined by Peter Rollo, founder of the website and blog project Rival Nations. Pete shares the history of Rival Nations, why he started it, why he was anonymous for so long, and where the project is headed. 

If you’ve ever questioned if the world of politics, on any side, be it liberal, conservative, anarchist, or libertarian always seems prone to the ways of this world, to violence. This episode looks at why that is, and why we, as Christians are called to a different kingdom, and we must continue to abide by the ways of that Kingdom, the one Jesus showed us, rather than pursue earthly powers.

Too often we find Christians falling into the fallacy that, if we just get more Christians elected into office things will change, and God’s will can be implemented, with the right leaders, but this is the illusion we see Jesus reject time and time again in the Bible. How do we get to this conclusion? By looking at what Jesus has to teach us. In the second half of the episode, Pete breaks down his article, Christians Can’t Be in Government, to show us exactly who is at the forefront of political power (hint: it is not God!).

We see Israel fall when it turns to earthly Kings, and we see Jesus reject the role of Messiah, in an effort to show us God’s way, not Man’s. Rival Nations is a digital archive of Pete’s theological journey, and it all started with seeing Jesus as a political force, not in his pursuit of political power, but, rather, in his rejection of it. Let us know what you think and the comments, or by sharing your thoughts on social media!

Episode Timestamps:

1:46 Pete’s Background

• Public ministry and expressing “radical” viewpoints

4:08 The difficulty of engaging those we disagree with

6:31 Peter’s Political Journey 

• No political ideology or government aligns with Jesus

• Jesus is the alternative to the earthly missions of political movements

• Jesus is political

8:27 Creation of Rival Nations (formerly done anonymously)

• Peter created the website as a tool for himself

11:30 How the Political realization of Jesus transformed Peter’s Theology

• Word Gospel was not a Hebrew word, but a word caesar was using and Jesus co-opted the phrase

• Early church’s focus on Jesus

• Modern church’s alignment with the Roman Catholic church vs. the early church of historic Christianity

• Anabaptist 

16:17 Peter’s Article - Christians Can’t Be in Government

• If you take Jesus seriously, we must abstain from seeking political power

• The myth of “getting more Christians in office will fix things”

• George W. Bush claimed to follow Jesus vs. his actions while in office (war)

• Can a Christian run a secular government, without engaging in violence

• Governments cannot love their enemy the way Jesus calls on us to love ours

• Satan offered Jesus political power and Jesus rejected it

  • Politics pulls us away from God?

  • Satan wants more Christians in office

20:22 Did God create the government (or any government)?

• 1 Samuel 8

• Humanity was given authority over animals and nature - not humanity

• Israel had no king and was supposed to be an example, but they fell into wanting kings

  • Violence always comes from wanting to control others

• The whole power structure has to be turned upside down to follow Jesus

• The notion of “Jesus for President” can never make sense with the current system

27:06 Jesus being tempted with political power and rejecting it

• Jesus avoided term Messiah

  • Had violence in its history

• People kept trying to make him king

• Satan directly tempts him

• Jesus is not going to come back and be violent

  • Why would Jesus change his mind?

• Jesus will not “slay out enemies”

  • Our propensity toward violence drives us to this thinking

• The myth of American Cowboy

  • “Might makes right”

  • Our enormous military power

  33:07 Opt-Out and Follow Jesus

• America is not our nation, Christnation is

• We are ambassadors of the Kingdom of Heaven

• But what about paul using his Roman citizenship?

  • We do what we need to survive practically and leverage situations for our mission for God and further the Gospel

• Accepting Jesus as king of your life is the only citizenship you get to choose to participate in

  • What paul talked about was a rival nation to Rome

38:59 “God puts people in political power”

• Reading Romans 13 without reading Romans 12

• Old vs. New Testament

• 3 Temptations of Jesus

• Is Satan only interested in Jesus worshiping him?

• If we know the temptation, why would we partake in it?

• Does Romans 13 work for Nazi Germany?

  • Then it doesn't work for you and America

44:49 God in the Process of Resorting All Things

• Escetoloy

• Times Theology

• Eternal Torment 

48:10 Connect with Peter and Rival Nations

• Rivalnations.org

Facebook Page, Instagram, Twitter, RSS

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59. Jesus, Memes, War, and Canadian Truckers with Nathan Chavoya, Tony & Abby Cleckner

About this episode

For episode 59 of the podcast, Craig is joined by (sometimes) co-host Abby Cleckner for a conversation with fellow podcasters, Nathan Chavoya and his co-host Tony, to talk about the power of memes, their podcast Reality Czars, and, of course, Jesus.

We covered a wide variety of topics in this episode, from why we use memes to Amish communities and the pros and cons of Trump supporters. As always, it comes back to the question of: What Would Jesus Do? Whether we’re considering people who don’t want to listen, Canadian truckers, Ukraine and Russia, the Mexican border, war and Christianity, the indoctrination of the church, or conservative Amish communities – in everything, we must follow the example of Jesus.

Nathan is the social media manager for The Bad Roman Project. He makes a lot of the memes you see on our page. You can find Nate and Tony's show and where to connect with them via their link tree (content warning for all of their media: profanity, crude humor, rude comments).

Episode Timestamps:

5:50 Why memes work

• People often seem to get more out of memes than the podcast

• Non-intrusive way to absorb an idea

• Can light a fire… maybe dose a red pill

  • Makes people read all day to learn more

  • Might change their entire perspective on the world

9:01 People who love to smell their own farts

• Some people just want to inform others how wrong they are

• Go on long rants

• You can’t do anything about it when they refuse your offered resources

  • They don’t really want answers

  • “I could tell you, but you're not listening to me anyway.” -Craig

• Saying, “You’re wrong” and writing a novel about why is not going to get you engagement

• Using tired information and arguments won’t convince anyone

• Proving you’re not interested in learning more about what you disagreed with shuts down the conversation

12:45 Canadian truckers

• “I see a bunch of statists running around out there waving their flags, trying to change the government and get the government to give them back their freedoms.” - Craig                                                       

  • We make fun of the patriot libertarians

    • But at least they’re doing something

      • Ancaps are sitting on their butts

      • Agorists are building their own markets and ignoring society

      • “I'm glad that there is some pushback.” - Nate 

      • Maybe they have the wrong approach, but at least theyr’e taking action

• Craig warned them to watch for feds/politicians trying to infiltrate their group

  • The feds are the dumb ones

    • There was a guy at the truck rally waving a Nazi flag

  • They literally all wear the same black boots

  • They try to paint any pushback as racist

    • It’s just normal folks saying, “Keep that crap away from me.”

• Trudeau called them harmful white nationalists

  • As they helped homeless people on the video behind his voice

  • There’s not just white people involved

• What is their goal? How does sitting there help?

  • Trudeau said all truckers must be vaccinated

    • Put a travel ban on unvaccinated

    • Even US truckers coming in must get the shot

    • In the US, like 60% of truckers are not vaccinated

  • They're holding a huge strike

    • Not shipping

    • Clogging up streets

  • People raised over $10 million on GoFundMe

    • It got refunded because the site refused to support the truckers

    • Another site stepped up and raised $3 million in 24 hours

  • Not directly hurting anyone

    • People won’t be able to get what they ordered

      • If there was no effect, what’s the point?

    • They have every right not to do their job

  • Some say it’s not really a grassroots movement

    • Most guys are there to fight the power

    • But it was the deep state’s idea

      • Elon Musk has created self-driving trucks

      • They are going to prevent humans from stopping shipment again by using computers instead

        • “Never again”

  • Wouldn’t it be more effective to just keep doing their jobs unvaccinated?

    • Instead of just sitting there waiting for the government to change its mind

    • People can refuse their shipments if they want

    • But it might have made less of a media splash

    • How could the government really enforce it? There’s too many of them

      • The laws wouldn’t mean anything anymore

  • Actually, a lot of the truckers are vaccinated

    • They’re still protesting with their brothers

    • They don’t believe anyone should be forced into it

    • In most realms of society, it’s the unvaxxed vs vaxxed, but these guys can still work together

    • They haven’t converted to the religion of COVID-19

    • They don’t see those without it as heretics

    • They just watch the news, and the news told them to get it

    • Most people don’t have access to alternative media

    • They’d been locked down for 2 years

    • Believed the vaccine would protect them, that they wouldn’t get COVID (not true), that they wouldn’t spread COVID (not true), and that the symptoms will be less bad (maybe?)

    • Realize they were duped, life didn’t go back to normal, we keep being told if we do just one more thing, it will all be over

    • How long will people continue doing the rain dance that doesn't bring any rain?

    • When will they say, “No! I don't trust you anymore.”

    • People are afraid to eat crow

    • They don't want to admit they were wrong, so they just continue to do what they're told and pretend to agree

24:47 The reality of COVID

• Some sort of virus definitely exists 

• It might not have actually been any worse than other years

  • The people in charge got to tell us what's causing deaths

    • They know how to manipulate statistics

  • Three years ago, if your grandma had cancer and diabetes, then got the flu and died, the flu would not be blamed

    • Almost everyone had 3 to 4 comorbidities

  • The average age of people who died from COVID was 81

    • The average age of people who die in America regularly is 79

• Theories on why it didn’t hurt most people

  • If they really made this in a lab, they didn't do a very good job

    • It didn't hurt very many people

    • It's all just a circus made to distract us

    • Or maybe they just weren't able to test it on average humans

      • Maybe they tested it on sickly populations and it wiped out a good chunk of those people

        • Prisoners low on vitamin D and will to live would get much sicker and be more likely to die

    • “They thought it was going to be really bad and were disappointed. So they had to start making up numbers.” - Abby

  • Psy-op 

    • Maybe it wasn’t about wiping out the population

    • Maybe it was about seeing what they could make us do

      • Even places who did not comply at first masked up for Omicron for some reason

        • Omicron meme example

29:18 Mandates

• Some counties in Tennessee tried to hold on to mask mandates

  • The state made them illegal at the county level

    • But schools were still free to choose

    • Craig’s friend’s kids were required to get vaccinated to go to school

      • Abby told her kids they wouldn’t be allowed to go if that happened

      • Nate and Craig would want to get violent if the school required that

        • Craig wouldn’t even stand for masks

    • People living in places where it’s not required are choosing to wear 2 masks and get jabbed

      • They’re scared

    • In Oregon, they forced all school staff to get the vaccine

      • A lot of teachers chose instead to get fired

      • Parents are all mad, but they do nothing

32:26 Schooling

• If we all got together and hired the fired teachers, we could have our own school

  • No more government indoctrination camp

  • No more teaching our kids weird things we don’t want them to learn

  • The unvaxxed teachers are more likely to align with our values

• Let’s come together and homeschool instead of getting our kids vaccinated so that they can be indoctrinated

33:52 Ukraine and Russia

• You have to look back at their history to understand

• Is the threat of war just posturing by Biden?

  • His guys supposedly killed an ISIS leader in Syria the other day

    • Some people say he wasn’t even a leader

    • So many innocent people died in that air strike

  • Is this also just something they’re saying to look good?

  • Biden’s popularity has been plummeting

    • Whenever that happens, they start talking about war

• It doesn’t look like Russia is wanting war

• History

  • Raegan and Gorbachev made an agreement that NATO would never extend east beyond Western Germany and the USSR would not come west of it

  • NATO has taken over many former USSR countries

  • Russia wants at least a buffer between themselves and NATO

    • That was Ukraine

    • They said if NATO came into Ukraine, they’d fight

• Who knows what will happen

  • We’re acting like the biggest bully

    • But are we?

    • We just turned tail and left Afghanistan

• What people are saying

  • Someone said, “Man, those democrats sure do like war”

    • Dude, the republicans continued several wars with Trump in office

    • You just gotta agree with them

      • Because that is true

      • Ask them questions: 

        • Why don’t they like war?

        • Find out their principles

      • Then ask them to be consistent when a republican comes to power

39:26 Border crossers

• Conversation Craig had

  • “Trump gave us a secure border”

  • “By locking kids in cages”

  • “But at least it was secure”

  • “I dunno; doesn’t seem Christlike”

  • *silence*

• Use, “IDK… WWJD?”

• Someone said, “Most of the kids in cages aren’t even related to any adults they came with. I’d rather my kid sit in a cage than be sex trafficked.”

  • Obama made some sort of rule that if you brought a kid with you, the US government would let you through no questions asked

    • So, lots of sex and drug traffickers used that to their advantage

  • They couldn't keep the kids and adults together because they were afraid of the kids being abused, especially since most of them were not with their parents

  • "I don't think the cages are the best solution still. Call me crazy." - Abby

• We just need to get rid of drug laws and borders, and most of these problems would be solved

• Why do people care if anyone comes over the border anyway?

  • What's so wrong about them looking for a better life?

  • People here don't want to work, so why can't they let someone else come do it?

  • So many people who oppose the border don't realize the people getting ahead in their precious capitalist system are bringing people over the border for cheap labor

    • They don't get held accountable, but Mom and Pop places do

  • Work visas

    • Families have to live off one income if one spouse is deported

  • “They’re so sweet; I don’t understand why we treat them like garbage.” - Craig

• Shoot ‘em

  • People want to have snipers on top of the wall picking crossers off

    • Because maybe then they’d think twice about coming over

  • There used to be a group who shot border crossers

  • They have similar attitudes towards Muslims

    • If they saw one with a backpack on, they’d shoot

      • How does one know a man is Muslim?

        • You’d have to do a little interview with him first

45:00 Evangelicals love war and destruction

• They’re the top demographic to support war, capital punishment, torture…

• How is that possible??

  • Maybe it started with one issue, like abortion, and once the Republican Party could control what they thought about that, they could control what they thought about everything else too

  • Conservative culture is more important to them than Jesus or liberty

    • They stick a Jesus fish on their car to prove their love

• Evangelicals will get mad at you when you say you don't support war 

  • They actually seem to equate being a Christian with supporting war

    • They don't see the conflict there

  • “I was that guy…It never dawned on me that murdering people was not what Christ wants us to do.” - Craig

  • There has to be some fascinating psychology behind that

    • Someone made a diabolical plan to cause it

• It’s taught in churches

  • Perhaps most strongly in Southern Baptist congregations

• But people can love their country without loving murder and theft

• The church was infiltrated

  • The first churches in early America were very anti-state

  • Maybe the desire for power was too strong and they combined with the state

  • Maybe they learned loyalty to the state from the Church of England

    • Or they were used to controlling the state through the church

  • The separatists coming from England had been persecuted by the Anglican Church and had no interest in being like them

51:51 Amish

• Were getting murdered by other denominations

• Fled to America

• Stuck their heads in the ground and became entirely separate

• Did not operate like England at all

• Some anabaptists are trying to convince the more conservative Amish groups to engage with the fringes of society

  • They’re so secluded they won’t even help people outside the church

• Their strict rules are a new form of oppression

• Treat their women like second class citizens

  • Jesus never talked about that

  • Maybe it’s an indoctrination

  • A lot of Muslim women say they like and choose their head coverings

• Some Amish communities kick their kids out into the world at 16-18 to let them decide for themselves

  • Some don’t and people flee

    • They send members after them like a Mormon cult

55:54 Reality Czars podcast

• Unscripted

  • Which is good because popular guests who usually repeat the same thing wind up sharing something new or funny

• Nate and Tony teamed up

  • Met at Squatchfest

  • Tony helped Nate kill some pigs for an anarchist animal butchering class

    • (he kind of expected to get killed because Nate’s standing their with a gun and HUGE pigs in the pen, and they were only acquaintances)

  • They had interesting conversations and decided to start a show

• Nate’s side hustle

  • Wife Abbey writes these show notes (hi)

  • He makes the memes

  • Abbey also does proofreading

• Nate’s baby

  • Is actually 8.5 months old now

  • Happily wears bow ties to church

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48. Meeting People Where They Are with Justin Cornett of For All Tennessee

In this episode, we take the podcast in a bit of a different direction. We are anarchists, but we've brought in someone who works within the state to improve citizens’ lives through the legislature. Justin Cornett started For All Tennessee so he can act as a go-between from citizens to their representatives.

For All TN listens to citizens’ needs and works to get them taken care of them by passing bills. This organization is different because its members vote on which issues to pursue, and the company is not controlled by money. For more information, visit For All Tennessee or email info@foralltn.org. Follow Justin on Facebook and Twitter. 

At The Bad Roman Project, we wish the state didn't exist. But the fact is, it does. I (Craig) have been learning that people won’t immediately jump to anarchy from their brainwashed state. We have to meet them where they're at. We have to find ways to make them see that they don't want to be controlled by an authority, especially one who only cares about them as long as they're contributing financially to the government.

Part of the work Justin is doing is spreading knowledge to average citizens about the unfair and unconstitutional laws they are abiding by. He opens their eyes to what the government is doing and encourages them to join him in pushing their local representatives in a different direction. This is a step towards freedom, a step towards taking control of what's ruling their lives and realizing how harmful the government is to their community. 

Timestamps:

2:43 Biden’s “Proclamation” about vaccine mandates

• It was just a press release

• Good ideas don’t require force

  • It’s a bad idea to criminalize bad decision making

• They never pushed the flu shot quite like this 

• “If they would have just let people decide on their own, more people probably would have taken this shot.” -Craig

• So much overreaction at the beginning by people on both sides of the aisle that people are now almost underactive and unwilling to put an experiment in their arms

• Biden and governors (like Texas and Florida) are making “mandates” about the vaccine – either that it can or cannot be required of specific people

  • But in Tennessee, it is a law that companies cannot require their employees to be vaccinated

    • Craig hasn’t had to choose between his livelihood and his life like so many others

    • Justin helped him talk to his politicians about it

8:30 We still live under our government

• Reality is, we live with a governmental system

  • If we want anything to happen, we have to work within that system

  •  most of the followers of the bad Roman are not ready to declare total anarchy, so we have to ease them into it a bit

  • “The world exists as it exists… If you try to operate contrary to the way the world actually works, it's not going to work out well for you.” -Justin

• Sometimes, people think they’re opposed to you

  • Until you take the time to understand them and explain more

    • And you both find they’ve said the same thing you said before, just differently

  • No one will listen to a headstrong bully

  • Jesus used love, hope, and patience to guide people to His path

    • If we don't use those tools, we will not succeed 

• Someone’s gotta work through the state; just not Craig ;)

13:44 For All Tennessee

• Takes policy ideas to the hill

• Members pay $5+/month

  • They get to vote on which issues are focused on

  • Also, people can designate their money for specific issues

• Utilizes different tactics such as pamphlets, door to door information sharing, and ads

• They do not campaign for or endorse certain politicians. They simply inform people about where all the politicians stand on important issues

• No party affiliation; just what's best for Tennessee

• “You don't fix what the government broke with more government. You can't really fix what the parties have broken with more parties, because the problem is inherent in the parties.” -Justin

• America was supposed to be self-governed through Representatives 

  • But right now there are two organizations who tell us what our options are, and we have to choose which of the 2 is less terrible

    • The only way to change that is for citizens to lean on their representatives

• Working to 

  • Find out what the citizens want 

  • Create policies

  • Lobby for representatives to vote for what do people in their district have asked 

    • If they don’t, they’ll lose votes

  • Find out what representatives think about policies and inform citizens

  • Guide people into a different mindset where they

    • Have influence over public policy

    • Don’t blindly follow government

      • They have the gift of free will 

    • Are aware of and ask for what's best for their community

  • Guide people to take a step towards freedom

• Run by this principle: get policy done that empowers people and limits government

28:23 How the founding fathers might feel about how things work now

• Rollin over in their graves

• If they were here, they’d go to war with our government

  • The federal government was never supposed to have as much power as it does

    • States were supposed to have more control

    • The federal budget is significantly higher than all the states’ budgets combined

    • The States created the federal government

      • And should therefore have more power 

    • The federal government does not constitutionally have the authority to pass a law 

      • But they've been doing it anyway for 100 years 

      • Everyone just behaves like the acts they have passed are law

33:04 Hypocrisy

• Saying we have to follow something because it's the law

  • While also dismissing laws that don't make sense

  • Or even disobeying align yourself while demanding that others get punished for it

•  Saying we should love our neighbor

  •  While also delighting in locking him up for nonviolent crimes

    •  Making his education, career, and family life a massive struggle

    •  Keeping him dependent on the state for sustenance

34:58 A new definition of politics

• Politics happens any time people interact with other people

• If you have a society full of garbage people, it is going to fail regardless of what government it has

• If you have a society full of people who truly care about others, the government won't be needed to control them

• We need a combination of 

  • A kind attitude towards each other and

  • A lack of governmental control

• We've got to focus on the goal

• We need to fix our eyes on Jesus, not what's going on in the world around us

  • Our treasure is not here on Earth 

  • But let's make the most out of what we have here

    •  While recognizing that this isn't the end for us

38:00 Working to limit police power

• Qualified immunity

  • Hasn't been voted on within the organization yet

  • They may or may not work on it, depending on the votes

• No-knock Raids

  • Worked to get 123 out of 132 votes to abolish them in TN

  • Written with police chiefs and the governor's office 

  • Tennessee already had a good record and policies in place to prevent no-knocks

    • This was just the final step

  • Police now have to report any excessive force used

  • Deescalation training is now required

40:52 Low-hanging fruit 

• Going for the policies that are already widely agreed upon

  • They are agreed upon by citizens, not necessarily representatives

  • Civil asset forfeiture

    • The government can see that you have assets and simply take them even when you have done nothing wrong

    • Many representatives see this as a necessary income stream for the government

    • Most average citizens have no idea this is a thing

      • So part of the work is to educate them and ask them to join against it

44:17 Effectiveness Analysis

• We check on the issues we worked on

• We got a bill passed on civil asset forfeiture that made the state more financially responsible when proven to be in the wrong

  • But they have a loophole

  • People are not being reimbursed for their legal fees

  • Now, we have another angle to focus on to help people

48:12 “We are nothing more than a revenue source for the government.” -Craig

• How do people not see this?

  • When a lie becomes commonplace, people just accept it

48:48 COVID migration

• People are moving to different states to escape COVID laws

  • Hopefully, those from the most extreme states don’t bring the lies they lived under with them

    • Conservatives are bad, but liberals are worse

    • Californians moving to Texas

  • In one county of TN, restaurants demanded people’s addresses in order to track their travel

• The government wants to divide and conquer us

  • We should be focusing on the similarities between groups

• Both sides want us to get vaccinated right now

  • Liberals get there by mandating what they think is good for us

  • Both are seeking gain and change culture

    • The way they want the culture to change to is different

    • Both prescribe laws for the purpose of culture shift

55:31 Plans for the new year

• Members can vote on what issues we focus on in 2022

  • Join before the deadline and get your vote in 

• If someone comes to us with $100,000 to work on a particular issue in a certain direction, we still need the approval of our members before moving forward

• As far as we know, no one else operates this way

  • If someone knows of an organization that does, please let us know so we can learn from them and be allies

• Currently, we only work in Tennessee but would love to have chapters in other states and then federally

  • Have incorporated for this reason

  • Everybody wants somebody to be doing this work 

Contact For All TN at info@foralltn.org

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38. Your Rights with Chris Polk & Jacob Daniel

Chris Polk is a Christ follower, podcast host, father, husband and entrepreneur. He owns a trucking company in West Virginia called Blue Ribbon Logistics. He can be found on Facebook, Instagram, and his podcast. Jacob Daniel is a Christian and friend of the show. He is an Austrian Economist and member of the Mises Caucus. He can be found online on Facebook, YouTube, his podcast, and website.

We discuss answers to the questions: What are rights? Where do they come from? Who has rights? Are there rights being claimed that we do not truly have? Is it really a right if we have to violate someone else’s rights to get it? Who is taking our rights away? How do we overcome tyranny and reclaim our rights? 

Timestamps & Starting points:

1:10 Chris’s journey from staunch republican to anarchist

• 2008 financial crisis

  • 1999 NYT article predicting it based on Clinton’s policies

  • Realized it was caused by the government

  • Everyone changed what they valued under Obama

    • No one in government actually has values; they just pretend to get ahead

  • Heard Ron Paul & Tom Woods interviews

  • Made choice not to worship founding fathers & Constitution

  • Went to his friend’s church where they preached about Jesus & anarchism

  • Today, refusing to be swayed by fear and shame

4:55 Dave Ramsey

• Craig’s journey to financial security

• “Dave Ramsey is the gateway drug to liberty.”

  • He causes people to ask questions and think for themselves

• Too bad he’s still a statist

7:41 Jacob’s progression to anarchism

• 2016 Bernie supporter 

• Voted for Hilary under vegan peer pressure  

• Ben Shapiro-esque  

• Libertarian anarchy

10:01 Shameful old Facebook posts

• “If I saw some of the things I said back then now on someone else’s wall, I would be on them in a heartbeat – like a cheetah in the wild.” -Jacob

• Craig actually started writing a spicy comment on one of his own memory posts

12:06 Larkin Rose quote

• “The truth is, one who seeks to achieve freedom by petitioning those in power to give it to him has already failed. Regardless of the response, to beg for the blessing of authority is to accept that the choice is the master’s alone to make, which means that the person already, by definition, is a slave.”

12:29 What are Rights?

• Chris: 

  • “Something that cannot be taken away from me without there being some sort of harm… simply being able to engage in those rights does not bring harm to anyone else.”

• Jacob: 

  • “Something you’re entitled to.”

  • Positive Rights: 

    • Something society “owes” you

    • Cause you to use force against someone to get them

  • Negative Rights: 

    • Needs we have that can be met without aggressing against someone else

20:35 The right to free healthcare

• “How’s the worker gonna get paid if you want every damn thing for free?” -Chris

• The person paying the bill has the authority

  • Why would we want to give the government power over our medical care?

    • People will fight for women to have the choice of abortion without government regulation, but forget to apply that right to other health concerns

• Doctors are no longer trained to treat whole humans; they’re just parts changers

• They must follow the authority’s guidance, even when it makes no sense

  • If they don’t, they’ll be cancelled

  • But those in authority are not even healthcare professionals

    • They just have money

• Why are big corporations and big tobacco bad, but big pharma is ok?

• Citizens of Canada come to US for emergency treatment because getting it there takes too long

  • But we still don’t exactly have a free market

    • Only big pharma is benefitting

    • There’s a lot of red tape

    • Regulations keep needs from being met

30:52 Environmental emissions regulation example

• LA outlawed most trucks being used

• Big companies bought compliant trucks and leased to smaller companies

  • How else could freight be moved?

• And then the Marxists swooped in and said the corporations were evil for their high lease rates

  • Demanded unionization of truckers

  • But it wasn’t the corporations’ fault

    • It was the government’s

• The laws were not really created to save the environment or lower illness

  • They were to help politicians get elected by making them look friendly to unions

• “The more power we give to the state to try to give us these things that we want, that we think we are entitled to, we're giving the state more and more license and power to go and do things that nobody wants to talk about.” - Jacob

40:16 Where do our tights come from?

• Most Americans, regardless of their religion, believe it’s from the state

• “Every man, woman and child on this planet has the same, uh, individual natural rights that you do.” - Chris

  • When people think their rights come from the Constitution, the idea that humans from outside the States have rights is shocking

• Non-Aggression Principle

  • Found in 10 Commandments & Jesus’ 2nd greatest

    • Love other people

  • Imago Dei

    • If people are made in the image of God, then aggressing against them is like aggressing against Him

    • You’re not loving God when you don’t love people

46:51 How to stop tyranny

• People are so quick to follow the rules

  • “These are not rules. These are the actions of tyrants.” -Craig

  • “I am not waiting for the state in any way to do anything for me. My customers are my heroes. My customers are my thin blue line-- my customers and my associates and our drivers. And that's where my prosperity comes from.” -Chris 

• “There is no state solution. There is no political solution left for this. The only solution is for you to stand up.” - Chris

  • “Take me to jail if you have to. But y'all only got so much jail capacity, so you can't get us all.” -Chris

  • You don’t need everyone’s approval

    • You only need enough people to keep you in business

  • If everyone opposes the bully, he has no power

    • We outnumber the government by so many

    • If we all say no and just keep doing what we want, what can they even do?

  • “The Bible doesn’t say, ‘Go get the state to love your neighbor.’” -Jacob

55:25 “The revolution will not be televised”

• The people standing up against the government are not in the news

• Ian Smith 

• Idiocracy -- made in 2006

58:40 Closing thoughts

• You cannot serve two masters… We all know who offered [Jesus] the kingdoms of the world. Satan did. So, you’re going to serve the kingdoms of the world. Are you going to serve the Kingdom of God? -Jacob

• If we want to actually help people, stop sitting around waiting for the state to do it; go do it yourself. -Jacob

• The state isn’t going to take those resources and do what you want them to do with them. They’re going to squander them. They’re going to take that power you gave them and hurt people. -Jacob