111. God vs MAGA: The Dangers of Mixing Christianity with American Nationalism

About this Episode

What happens when political figures are compared to religious icons? Join us on the Bad Roman Podcast as we explore this provocative question with our special guest, singer-songwriter Josh Nichols. In this episode, we dive into the unsettling comparisons between Donald Trump and Jesus, especially during election season on social media.

Comparing Donald Trump to Jesus is not just misguided—it's deeply problematic. Through his powerful song "God vs MAGA," Josh challenges the troubling idolatry of political figures and sheds light on the toxic rhetoric that equates Trump with Christ. We'll explore how these false comparisons harm our faith and divert our focus from the true essence of Jesus' teachings.

American nationalism has often cloaked itself in the guise of Christianity, but what does this mean for our spiritual integrity? We dissect the disturbing tendency to merge faith with national pride, examining how this threatens to turn patriotism into idolatry. Josh, through his song "God vs MAGA," unpacks the manipulation of religious beliefs by political entities and how such actions lead to a misguided faith in political leaders. Together, we scrutinize the parallels between Trump's portrayal and the biblical figure Barabbas, emphasizing the crucial need to discern truth amidst the political noise.

We highlight the conflict between personal rights and biblical principles of humility and selflessness by unpacking the theological implications and contrasting earthly citizenship with eternal values. Josh’s poignant lyrics, including the line "God doesn't want to make America great again," serve as a stark reminder that our allegiance should be to God's kingdom, not a nation.

Critical thinking and independent thought are crucial in navigating the noise of corporate media and political propaganda. We discuss the liberating power of relinquishing control to faith and how critical thinking fosters confident, independent opinions. From addressing the idolatry of political beliefs to critiquing the hypocrisy within pro-life stances, this episode is a call to elevate our faith above nationalism and strive for a greatness rooted in God's infinite and unconditional love, not a nation-state’s past.

We wrap up with personal reflections and broader societal critiques, highlighting the tension between national identity and spiritual integrity. Join us for this eye-opening dialogue that underscores the ultimate greatness found in God's kingdom and His unconditional love.

Connect with Josh Nichols:

• Tik Tok

• Spotify

• Apple Music

• Personal Instagram 

• Josh's Band - More Than This Instagram

• Tidal

• YouTube

Episode Timestamps:

Timestamps:

(00:00:02) God vs MAGA

• Comparison of Donald Trump to Jesus and its implications

• Insights from Josh Nichols on political manipulation

• Analysis of Trump's portrayal and parallels with Barabbas

• Discussion on Josh's song "God vs MAGA"

(00:09:37) Jesus, Nationalism, and Idolatry

• Examination of the blending of Christianity and American nationalism

• Discussion on the theological implications of national pride

• Insights into the idolatry of associating Jesus with American symbols

• Analysis of the contrast between earthly citizenship and the kingdom of God

(00:22:52) Navigating Critical Thinking in Society

• Importance of critical thinking and relinquishing control to faith

• Impact of corporate media on public opinion

• Advocacy for independent sources over divisive media channels

• How critical thinking fosters confidence in beliefs without alienating others

(00:32:38) America and Christianity

• The intersection of faith and patriotism and potential conflicts

• Discussion on political beliefs as modern idols

• Reference to the song "Clear the Stage" and the dangers of elevating anything above God

• Addressing hyperpolitical theology and the importance of understanding

(00:42:49) American Hypocrisy and Eternal Greatness

• Tension between American freedom and spiritual constraints

• Church responses to government mandates during the COVID-19 pandemic

• Bad Roman Episodes on Covid

• Examination of political actions versus genuine Christian values

• Discussion on hypocrisy within pro-life stances and national identity versus spiritual integrity

(00:51:42) Greatness in God and Music

• True greatness in God's kingdom versus making America great again

• Role of music in glorifying God and addressing faith issues

• Josh's passion for creating a community discussing faith, church hurt, and belief

• Emphasis on respectful dialogue within diverse Christian beliefs

(01:02:15) Faith in Modern Society

• Challenges of maintaining faith in a rapidly changing world

• Influence of social media on religious beliefs and practices

• The role of the church in addressing contemporary social issues

• Strategies for fostering a supportive faith community

(01:12:03) Balancing Faith and Personal Beliefs

• Personal stories of reconciling faith with modern values

• The impact of personal experiences on religious views

• Navigating disagreements within the church community

• Encouragement for open-mindedness and growth in faith

(01:22:48) Future of Christianity in America

• Predictions on the evolution of Christianity in a diverse society

• The potential for interfaith dialogue and cooperation

• The role of young people in shaping the future of the church

• Final thoughts on hope and perseverance in faith

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56. Following God Beyond the Blue Line with Terrell Carter

About this episode

Terrell Carter is a pastor and the president of a community development organization. At 16, he felt the call to ministry to do what he can to improve people’s lives and help different groups understand each other. At 23, he thought he could do that as a police officer, and they offered him benefits that would support his growing family. After 5 years, he had to quit because he wouldn’t stand for the corruption in the force and testified against his partner. He’s written several books and runs Rise, a nonprofit organization working to connect communities with local institutions to empower the revitalization of neighborhoods in Greater St. Louis, while pastoring a church and raising his children. 

Terrell has come on the podcast to shed light on his unique perspectives and experiences. He shares with us what it was like growing up black in a predominantly white community, how the police force didn’t fit with his life of Kingdom mission, and what it looks like to actually carry out the call of God to care for other people. One of his life goals is to bring different groups of people together through an understanding of each other, and today he is doing that by sharing his own story with us, who mostly come from a different background than his.

Episode Timestamps:

5:23 Terrell’s story

• African American

• Has a twin brother

• Grandparents and parents were teen parents

• Parents got married, but didn't stay together after Dad went into the army

  • But Dad’s parents helped raise them

• Parents didn’t get through high school

• Mom got in with bad crowds

  • Boys moved in with grandparents

  • She was murdered when boys were 7

• Everything is dedicated to his grandparents because without them, he would have never succeeded

• Moved in with Dad’s new family in Texas at 14

• Only issues were people being suspicious of them since it was a predominantly white town

  • But Brother graduated 4th in class; he graduated 11th

  • His brother won several writing competitions; he won awards for art

  • Both played sports

  • Both earned academic and athletic scholarships

  • Brother still plays baseball

• At 16, Terrell heard the call to ministry

  • Not just made to soak everything up

    • But to influence God’s people from a leadership position

• Returned to St Louis after graduating high school

  • It was a completely different place

  • In 4 years, the community went from majority homeowners to gang members

  • The first thing their grandparents told them was: don’t wear red or blue

  • Still a majority white city

    • Now, everyone thought black young men were all criminals

      • Didn’t know that Terrell was in Bible college

      • His brother had just placed in a huge writing competition

      • They were both in college and working jobs and creating beauty and attending church

• Married

  • Both he and his brother wanted to be husbands and fathers

• When his wife got pregnant, he looked for a job to provide for all their needs

  • Became a police officer

    • Paid for him to finish college

    • Pension

• Started on patrol; wound up on the toughest corner in the city. At night.

• Reassigned to plainclothes narcotics investigator

  • Kicking down doors, search warrants…

  • Turns out, his partner was into illegal activities

    • Terrell didn’t lie for him

      • Because he fears God

      • And because his partner was disrespecting people who were in a different place in life than he was

    • His partner did about 5 years in federal prison

    • When Terrell found out he was going to actually testify in court, he quit his job

      • He was being threatened by multiple people

      • “I had been told in no uncertain terms that if I tried to stand up for those kinds of things, then I would find myself out on the street by myself and something was going to happen to me.” -Terrell

• Went through multiple careers

• Got second doctorate

• Now president of Rise, a community development organization

  • Also, exhibiting art

  • Writing books

  • And pastoring a church

• Life calling: to try and help people understand each other and see God’s image in one another

  • That’s really everyone's calling

18:39 Why Terrell needed to come on the show

• Craig heard Terrell on Michael Storm’s show, Toward Anarchy

• Craig grew up in West Texas with maybe one black kid K-8

  • In middle school in San Angelo, there was a mix of races

  • High school in Fort Worth, was even more, diverse

    • Got to know kids in his class who didn’t fit negative stereotypes

    • Played sports together

  • Now in Memphis, the most diverse city he’s lived in

• “One of the challenges we have as Christians in the 21st century is we don't embrace that diversity.” - Terrell

• 3 books were written to help white Christians Understand that their experience is different from everyone else's

  • Healing Racial Divides: Finding Strength in our Diversity

  • Police on a Pedestal: Responsible Policing in a Culture of Worship

  • Taking Apart Bootstrap Theology: Gospel of Generosity and Justice

• MLK said that the most segregated hour of the week is during church

  • People worship with people they’re similar to

  • If there’s someone of a different race within a majority church, chances are, they're of the same economic background as the rest of the congregation

    • Still have a common understanding of the world; speak the same language

23:12 Terrell’s time on the force

• Arresting somebody knowing they were a child of God

  • “Whatever their life circumstances may have been… God created them and I don't get to judge them based on how their life turned out.” - Terrell

• There was a church parking lot in St. Louis where he used to write police reports

  • The pastor got killed by a kid he had taken under his wing

    • No one wanted to take over his position

    • Terrell’s seminary asked him to step in

• He worried someone he arrested would come in and lash out at him

  • He had a signal to his wife to get the kids and flee

  • Someone he’d arrested for domestic violence approached him

    • And said thank you

    • Terrell had treated him like a human

      • Talked to him on the way to jail

      • Encouraged him to turn his life around

        • He did

  • Terrell got in trouble at work for trying to help people improve

    • The police department just wants the cops to gather statistics and arrest people, not care about them

• “I didn't treat people like they were animals. I tried to treat them like they were children of God and that they may be experiencing a negative life circumstance, but that didn't have to be where they were going.” - Terrell

  • Not the normal attitude

  • They were never told to go help people; they were told to not do anything stupid

• Could work a secondary job (like security) in uniform with all rights and power of a policeman

  • A sergeant told him to stop and just get overtime instead

29:48 Craig’s background

• Wore a thin blue line bracelet

• Defending all cops’ actions

  • “They’re just following/enforcing the law”  

• Realized police are there to protect the state, not citizens

• Then George Floyd got killed

  • Murdered

  • Craig would have once been one of the guys saying, “If he had just not resisted, he would not have been killed”

32:02 How we got here

• White people are in power and everyone else is subject

  • That’s the system that's in place

    •  Doesn't make white people bad

  • Certain people groups’ existence has been criminalized

    • Black women have been dubbed “welfare queens” – by a president

      • For the record, white women use social services more

    • Black men are assumed to be violent criminals

      • The culture of fear surrounding black people has been built up

    • Policing began to control the Native American population trying to get their land back

      • And then escaped or released slaves

• Police are there to protect against all crimes and criminalized peoples

  • “It doesn't matter what a police officer does, as long as they make white people feel better or feel protected, then we're okay.” -Terrell

  • But if police treat white people like they do minorities, they get in legal trouble

    • Minorities are believed to deserve it

• White people often ask, “Why didn’t he just cooperate?”

  • Why can’t they just do what they’re told??

    • Sounds like a slavery question

  • Why can’t they get along with everyone else?

  • “That's from a position of power when you have not experienced what these people groups have experienced. And so that's part of what the challenge is.” - Terrell

  • The state is an agent of slavery

• Sports example

  • Lebron James tried to speak out

    • Was silenced

    • “Just because he makes millions of dollars doesn't mean that people respect or view him as fully human. No, they view him as a commodity for their entertainment.” - Terrell

38:18 Trying to reconcile policing as a Christian (not to mention a pastor)

• “There's no way to reconcile them other than saying, ‘I'm just going to do what I'm told. I'm not going to think about it.’” - Terrell

  • Told himself there were no other prospects

• From the very beginning, people were expecting him to falsify reports

• He was told to go with the system

  • Pushback was dangerous

41:43 Terrell’s life now

• Has a handful of friends from the force

• Many officers have forgotten the past

  • But writing books opens old wounds

• Most are still mad he didn't toe the line 

• All his friends from the force kept being cops

  • Some acquaintances quit

• Several readers of his books have told him they wish they could have been as brave as he was

  • Or that someone in their department would have stood up because maybe they would have joined him

44:04 Rise

• Community development corporation that seeks to make safer, healthier, more equitable communities and neighborhoods in St. Louis city and St. Louis, Madison, and St. Claire counties in Illinois

• Builds or assists others in building affordable housing

  • Government funds cut the rent just about in half for those in need

  • Give funds to female or minority-owned construction companies

  • Fund developers who are looking to improve the health of the community

  • Assist cities and municipalities with planning

• Fits pretty well with the call to make people's lives better

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9. Jessica Green - Leaving the Left & Finding Jesus

In this episode, Craig speaks with Jessica Green about leaving Liberalism, finding God, and being “politically homeless.” While most guests on The Bad Roman Podcast have found their way to Anarchy from the right, Jessica brings us a story from the other side.

Did we mention she used to be an Atheist? Jessica explains how she got so far left, it started looking like the Right, and how the Bible came to life for her in the midst of her political wandering.  

Starting Points for Further Exploration:

4:11 Senator Rand Paul attacked by neighbor

5:53 Increasing Polarization of the two-party system

6:28 The Tom Woods Show  

7:47 Economics In One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt

7:50 The Most Dangerous Superstition by Larken Rose

7:55 Jordan Peterson (why he is controversial)

15:20 Miseis Caucus Libertarian Party

22:20 U.S. Peace Deal with Taliban

23:45 Ron Paul

25:08 9/11 Majority of Terrorists came from Saudi Arabia

30:32 Free Man Beyond the Wall

41:27 Book of Matthew, Mark, Luke

49:47 The Remnant

To learn more about and connect with Jessica Green follow her on Twitter @LibKitWitch, on Youtube, and visit her website. You can also find her podcast, The Jessica Green Show, wherever you like to listen.