109. Divine Renegade: Creed, Power, Living in Christian Anarchy

About this Episode

Join host Craig on a revolutionary exploration of Christian Anarchy with the provocative thinker known as the Royal Priest in this daring episode of the podcast. With over two decades of ministry experience, the Royal Priest, an author and host of eight podcasts, provides a rare perspective that pierces through the fabric of traditional Christian dogma. This episode is a must-listen for anyone poised on the precipice of spiritual awakening, yearning to explore the harmony of divine law and human governance.

This episode isn't just a conversation; it's a journey into the heart of what it means to be a follower of Christ in a world governed by man-made structures. Craig shares his transformation from an anarchist skeptic to a believer in a Christ-centered way of life, challenging the church's status quo and redefining what it means to truly serve a higher authority.

The Royal Priest's journey from established church leader to a nomadic truth-seeker provides a captivating backdrop to this dialogue. We examine the tension between comfortable doctrines and the radical truths of Jesus’s teachings. Are you prepared for the "great jubilation" and the reformation it heralds? 

It's an introspective look at the role Christians play in the political landscape and a contemplation of our allegiance: is it to God, state, or both?

As we round off this provocative dialogue, the spotlight turns to law enforcement and its alignment with divine justice. From unwavering support to critical reevaluation, Craig shares how his  journey mirrors a larger questioning within our society. For officers of faith, this is a call to measure your duties against the unyielding yardstick of divine righteousness.

People of faith, are you ready to confront these questions head-on? This episode is not just a passive listening experience; it's an invitation to challenge your perspectives, to stir your spirit, and to join a community seeking to align their earthly walk with the teachings of Christ. It's an invitation to weigh the constructs of governance against the immutable scale of divine righteousness. Don't miss out on this transformative dialogue that's bound to awaken, challenge, and inspire you.

Connect with the Royal Priest:

• Listen to his Podcasts

• Explore his books

• Visit his website: www.theroyalpriest.com

• Explore his graphic design work: www.bjgraphicsonline.com

• Listen to his music: www.nastyonthebeats.com

Episode Timestamps:

00:57 Exploring Christian Anarchy

• Journey through 21 years of ministry and engaging with diverse audiences

• Emphasis on kingdom values over traditional Christian narratives

• Anarchic pursuit of God's will against state governance

• Therapeutic aspect of vocalizing inner truths and guided prayer

09:06 Anarchy vs. Christ

• Tension between Christian teachings and governmental support

• Transition from anarchist principles to living for a higher king

• Biblical insights on earthly governance, referencing 1 Samuel 8

• Conflict between church doctrines and the radical message of Jesus

13:39 Government, Righteousness, and Christian Growth

• Discussion on the authority of Christ in governance post-resurrection

• Responsibility of infusing righteousness into political structures

• Dealing with uncomfortable truths for spiritual maturity

• Recognizing the cost of advocating for divine righteousness

23:49 Spreading the Message

• Concept of "great jubilation" and the manifestation of God's kingdom

• Preparedness for the transition and the risks of opposing divine direction

• The contrast between public reliance on government and advocating for God's governance

• Resistance from the church to kingdom-focused narratives

36:10 Reevaluating Views on Law Enforcement

• Personal shift from supporting to questioning the police

• Conflict of funding law enforcement through taxation

• Encounters with "road pirates" and discussions within communities

• Encouraging deeper understanding of policing issues

39:11 Questioning the Righteousness of Law Enforcement

• Moral dilemmas for officers enforcing laws against religious ethics

• Potential for power abuse within law enforcement

• Historical church views on members in violent positions

• Importance of aligning police actions with divine righteousness

46:41 Critiquing Justice and Proclaiming Righteousness

• Struggle between human judgment and spiritual guidance

• Spiritual warfare and the scriptural balance of peace and conflict

• Growth challenges of outreach projects and importance of consistent messaging

• Valuing criticism for growth and providing resources for divine empowerment

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56. Following God Beyond the Blue Line with Terrell Carter

About this episode

Terrell Carter is a pastor and the president of a community development organization. At 16, he felt the call to ministry to do what he can to improve people’s lives and help different groups understand each other. At 23, he thought he could do that as a police officer, and they offered him benefits that would support his growing family. After 5 years, he had to quit because he wouldn’t stand for the corruption in the force and testified against his partner. He’s written several books and runs Rise, a nonprofit organization working to connect communities with local institutions to empower the revitalization of neighborhoods in Greater St. Louis, while pastoring a church and raising his children. 

Terrell has come on the podcast to shed light on his unique perspectives and experiences. He shares with us what it was like growing up black in a predominantly white community, how the police force didn’t fit with his life of Kingdom mission, and what it looks like to actually carry out the call of God to care for other people. One of his life goals is to bring different groups of people together through an understanding of each other, and today he is doing that by sharing his own story with us, who mostly come from a different background than his.

Episode Timestamps:

5:23 Terrell’s story

• African American

• Has a twin brother

• Grandparents and parents were teen parents

• Parents got married, but didn't stay together after Dad went into the army

  • But Dad’s parents helped raise them

• Parents didn’t get through high school

• Mom got in with bad crowds

  • Boys moved in with grandparents

  • She was murdered when boys were 7

• Everything is dedicated to his grandparents because without them, he would have never succeeded

• Moved in with Dad’s new family in Texas at 14

• Only issues were people being suspicious of them since it was a predominantly white town

  • But Brother graduated 4th in class; he graduated 11th

  • His brother won several writing competitions; he won awards for art

  • Both played sports

  • Both earned academic and athletic scholarships

  • Brother still plays baseball

• At 16, Terrell heard the call to ministry

  • Not just made to soak everything up

    • But to influence God’s people from a leadership position

• Returned to St Louis after graduating high school

  • It was a completely different place

  • In 4 years, the community went from majority homeowners to gang members

  • The first thing their grandparents told them was: don’t wear red or blue

  • Still a majority white city

    • Now, everyone thought black young men were all criminals

      • Didn’t know that Terrell was in Bible college

      • His brother had just placed in a huge writing competition

      • They were both in college and working jobs and creating beauty and attending church

• Married

  • Both he and his brother wanted to be husbands and fathers

• When his wife got pregnant, he looked for a job to provide for all their needs

  • Became a police officer

    • Paid for him to finish college

    • Pension

• Started on patrol; wound up on the toughest corner in the city. At night.

• Reassigned to plainclothes narcotics investigator

  • Kicking down doors, search warrants…

  • Turns out, his partner was into illegal activities

    • Terrell didn’t lie for him

      • Because he fears God

      • And because his partner was disrespecting people who were in a different place in life than he was

    • His partner did about 5 years in federal prison

    • When Terrell found out he was going to actually testify in court, he quit his job

      • He was being threatened by multiple people

      • “I had been told in no uncertain terms that if I tried to stand up for those kinds of things, then I would find myself out on the street by myself and something was going to happen to me.” -Terrell

• Went through multiple careers

• Got second doctorate

• Now president of Rise, a community development organization

  • Also, exhibiting art

  • Writing books

  • And pastoring a church

• Life calling: to try and help people understand each other and see God’s image in one another

  • That’s really everyone's calling

18:39 Why Terrell needed to come on the show

• Craig heard Terrell on Michael Storm’s show, Toward Anarchy

• Craig grew up in West Texas with maybe one black kid K-8

  • In middle school in San Angelo, there was a mix of races

  • High school in Fort Worth, was even more, diverse

    • Got to know kids in his class who didn’t fit negative stereotypes

    • Played sports together

  • Now in Memphis, the most diverse city he’s lived in

• “One of the challenges we have as Christians in the 21st century is we don't embrace that diversity.” - Terrell

• 3 books were written to help white Christians Understand that their experience is different from everyone else's

  • Healing Racial Divides: Finding Strength in our Diversity

  • Police on a Pedestal: Responsible Policing in a Culture of Worship

  • Taking Apart Bootstrap Theology: Gospel of Generosity and Justice

• MLK said that the most segregated hour of the week is during church

  • People worship with people they’re similar to

  • If there’s someone of a different race within a majority church, chances are, they're of the same economic background as the rest of the congregation

    • Still have a common understanding of the world; speak the same language

23:12 Terrell’s time on the force

• Arresting somebody knowing they were a child of God

  • “Whatever their life circumstances may have been… God created them and I don't get to judge them based on how their life turned out.” - Terrell

• There was a church parking lot in St. Louis where he used to write police reports

  • The pastor got killed by a kid he had taken under his wing

    • No one wanted to take over his position

    • Terrell’s seminary asked him to step in

• He worried someone he arrested would come in and lash out at him

  • He had a signal to his wife to get the kids and flee

  • Someone he’d arrested for domestic violence approached him

    • And said thank you

    • Terrell had treated him like a human

      • Talked to him on the way to jail

      • Encouraged him to turn his life around

        • He did

  • Terrell got in trouble at work for trying to help people improve

    • The police department just wants the cops to gather statistics and arrest people, not care about them

• “I didn't treat people like they were animals. I tried to treat them like they were children of God and that they may be experiencing a negative life circumstance, but that didn't have to be where they were going.” - Terrell

  • Not the normal attitude

  • They were never told to go help people; they were told to not do anything stupid

• Could work a secondary job (like security) in uniform with all rights and power of a policeman

  • A sergeant told him to stop and just get overtime instead

29:48 Craig’s background

• Wore a thin blue line bracelet

• Defending all cops’ actions

  • “They’re just following/enforcing the law”  

• Realized police are there to protect the state, not citizens

• Then George Floyd got killed

  • Murdered

  • Craig would have once been one of the guys saying, “If he had just not resisted, he would not have been killed”

32:02 How we got here

• White people are in power and everyone else is subject

  • That’s the system that's in place

    •  Doesn't make white people bad

  • Certain people groups’ existence has been criminalized

    • Black women have been dubbed “welfare queens” – by a president

      • For the record, white women use social services more

    • Black men are assumed to be violent criminals

      • The culture of fear surrounding black people has been built up

    • Policing began to control the Native American population trying to get their land back

      • And then escaped or released slaves

• Police are there to protect against all crimes and criminalized peoples

  • “It doesn't matter what a police officer does, as long as they make white people feel better or feel protected, then we're okay.” -Terrell

  • But if police treat white people like they do minorities, they get in legal trouble

    • Minorities are believed to deserve it

• White people often ask, “Why didn’t he just cooperate?”

  • Why can’t they just do what they’re told??

    • Sounds like a slavery question

  • Why can’t they get along with everyone else?

  • “That's from a position of power when you have not experienced what these people groups have experienced. And so that's part of what the challenge is.” - Terrell

  • The state is an agent of slavery

• Sports example

  • Lebron James tried to speak out

    • Was silenced

    • “Just because he makes millions of dollars doesn't mean that people respect or view him as fully human. No, they view him as a commodity for their entertainment.” - Terrell

38:18 Trying to reconcile policing as a Christian (not to mention a pastor)

• “There's no way to reconcile them other than saying, ‘I'm just going to do what I'm told. I'm not going to think about it.’” - Terrell

  • Told himself there were no other prospects

• From the very beginning, people were expecting him to falsify reports

• He was told to go with the system

  • Pushback was dangerous

41:43 Terrell’s life now

• Has a handful of friends from the force

• Many officers have forgotten the past

  • But writing books opens old wounds

• Most are still mad he didn't toe the line 

• All his friends from the force kept being cops

  • Some acquaintances quit

• Several readers of his books have told him they wish they could have been as brave as he was

  • Or that someone in their department would have stood up because maybe they would have joined him

44:04 Rise

• Community development corporation that seeks to make safer, healthier, more equitable communities and neighborhoods in St. Louis city and St. Louis, Madison, and St. Claire counties in Illinois

• Builds or assists others in building affordable housing

  • Government funds cut the rent just about in half for those in need

  • Give funds to female or minority-owned construction companies

  • Fund developers who are looking to improve the health of the community

  • Assist cities and municipalities with planning

• Fits pretty well with the call to make people's lives better

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39. Disestablishmentarianism

What is "disestablishmentarianism"? In this episode, Craig speaks with Michael Korbel about his article Against Those Who Are Against the State, where he defines this word(antidisestablishmentarianism) as a mindset of being against those who are against the establishment. Right now, those of us who are refusing to comply with current mandates are being not only ridiculed but actually kicked out of businesses and schools. Together, we explore how we got to this point, what we can do to thrive in this environment, and how understanding the word disestablishmentarianism can help us frame current events.

Michael Korbel is the host of The Invictus Mind podcast where he interviews experts about political, financial, and spiritual freedom for the individual. Invictus is Greek for unconquerable. His main message is that individuals have the power to make changes for themselves in their lives. They just have to take that power from those in the systems who claim it over them. You can connect with and learn more about Michael on Facebook, Twitter, MeWe, Instagram, and YouTube.

Timestamps & Starting Points:

2:18 Mask mandates in March 2021

• Getting kicked out of the post office

• Restaurants making people wear masks to wait, but not to eat

  •  They’re worried about health inspectors

    • “a lot of these people are just concerned about what the government can do.”

6:11 Antidisestablishmentarianism

• means “against those who are against the status quo”

10:03 History of antidisestablishmentarianism

• Henry the 8th in 1533

  • Forbidden to divorce by the Pope

    • Wanted out of several marriages because no sons

    • Created the Anglican Church so he could divorce 

      • Everything the king said became a religion

      • Divine Right of Kings & antidisestablishmentarianism

        • Anyone who opposed him was opposed

• Simultaneously, Luther and others were pulling away from Roman Catholic control

  • Enlightenment

  • Other sects were forbidden by England

14:42 Entanglement

• Are our laws based on Jesus or the 10 Commandments?

  • Sort of… only the commandments about loving other people were made into laws here; nothing about who to worship or how

• Our founding fathers were not all Christians

  • They wanted to create a place where anyone could practice religion however they want

  • Laws were created to keep people safe, not properly religious

  • Compared to England where there was Divine Right of Kings to speak for God and rule the people with His power

18:06 Can morality be legislated?

• “Conservatives believe that without the establishment, morality would cease to exist in society” -Craig

• Mike says draw the line at the government throwing people in cages for not living up to your standards of morality

  • People shouldn’t be allowed to steal or harm others, but why can’t they choose their own relationships?

  • Craig asks how can you judge these people when you don’t even know any?

  • They are suffering in the church and contemplating suicide. We’re doing something wrong.

  • Really, it’s none of our business. Jesus says love people. Period.

• Live by Matt Kibbe’s words: “Don’t hurt me; don’t take my stuff.”

  • If a person is doing something you don’t like, but it doesn’t hurt you, and they’re not taking your stuff… it’s none of your business

• The Left’s way of forcing morality

  • Forcing “charity” through taxes

  • “The left thinks that they can force people through the state to act a certain way, just like the right thinks they can use the state to force people to act a certain way.” -Craig

26:51 Separation of church and state

• We can live with people who have different gods without hurting each other

• The state cannot dictate who or how we worship

29:39 How Involved to be in the state

• The Early Church had nothing to do with the state

  • “Nothing about the teachings of Christ said, get your favorite politician elected so we can legislate morality.” - Craig

    • Christ said to love God; love people

  • If someone really wants to fix a problem using the state, they can’t. Not without unraveling the entire thing. It’s all so connected 

    • For example: if taxes were abolished, at least three other systems would be devastated

• It’s so hard for us to disentangle because we’ve been so tied to the state for so long

• "When there are presidential debates, I'd rather watch wrestling. That's more realistic to me than a presidential debate." -Craig

• Stop voting.

  • But if you just can't, at least choose to only vote for your local community leaders

  • If you must vote at the national level, select a 3rd party candidate

  • “I can't control what they're going to do. So I might as well just stay out of it.” -Mike

40:09 The fall of the empire

• Rulers exploit religion to conquer and pillage

• If it falls in our lifetime, I don't anticipate chaos

  • People will figure out how to adjust

• So many parallels to the Roman empire before their collapse

  • The basement of currency

  • Lack of morality among common people

  • Overreaching government

    • Expanding control to other countries

• People need to find something else to put their faith in because it's going down

• If it's not our generation, it could be your children's or grandchildren's