88. Journeys of Faith: Unpacking Eschatology with Micah and John of City Square Podcast

About this Episode

Have you ever questioned your beliefs about the end times? Have you ever wondered about the different strands of eschatological thought and how they emerged? Strap in for a fascinating discussion with John and Micah, hosts of the City Square Podcast on eschatology. Listen in as we get into the heart of eschatology, a topic we've not extensively covered on the Bad Roman Podcast. It's an enlightening conversation filled with personal experiences, exciting insights, and a friendly rivalry over football.

Ready to expand your horizons? We explore different eschatological views, how popular culture influences these perspectives(The Left Behind Series), and the history of alternative beliefs and teachings. Hear about the three main views of eschatology (Amill, Pre-Mill, and Post-Mill), the interpretations of Christ's return, and the role of critical thinking and discernment in religious belief. We deconstruct the emergence of dispensationalism, where it came from, and its wide acceptance today.

But that’s not all! We’re pulling back the curtain on the City Square Podcast, revealing its conception, production, and mission. Hear how everyday people share stories of their faith and labor, contributing to the vibrant tapestry of human experience. We'll also discuss the bearing of eschatology on one's life and the potential it holds to shape our view of the world. With John and Micah as our guides, we journey through a landscape of belief, religion, and personal perspectives in this enlightening and entertaining episode.

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Episode Timestamps:

01:10 - Who is Micah? 

• Husband, father, grew up Baptist before moving into Evenglicail philosophies 

• studied church father and found his way into LCMS (Lutheran Church Mission Synod)

02:56 - Who is John?

• Did not grow up in the Church

• God saved him in college

• He found his way into reform theology and planted a church in rural TX before moving to San Antonio

• Web Designer

04:27 West Texas & The Dallas Cowboys 

• Sports Rivalries

• Steve Young signed ball

9:36 Eschatology

• City Square Round Table

• The Rapture and Southern Baptist Churches view on it

• Preacher Ebb

• Dispensationalist Eschatology

12:33 John’s View of the Rapture and Eschatology

• Evangelical tradition’s relationship to dispensationalist Eschatology

• Left Behind Series

• Amillennialism Eschatology

• Traditional early Church view

16:14 Micah’s View and What is Amill?

• Amill

• Not a future literal thousand years, but Christ is reigning now with saints and will at some point return

• Post-mill

• Christ returns after minimum, but the world system gets progressively better until his return

• Pre-mill

• Christ returns before the millennium

• Dispensationalist 

• 18th century 19th century America

• Splits Christ's return into two parts

19:40 The Fear of Rapture as a Kid and where that gets directed 

• Not fear of self not being saved but those who do not believe

• Fear-based theology

• United Pentecostal

22:44 Why should we care about these different views as Christians?

• Dispensationalist in 2020

• “Everything was the anti-Christ”

• Most people don’t know there are multiple perspectives or the origins of Dispensationalism

• Dangers of going “too far”

• Eschatology as a barrier to a deeper faith

27:00 Israel’s Standing in Amill and Post-mill vs. Dispensationalism

• Book of Revelation and Daniel are important for Dispensationalism

• Symbolism vs. literalism 

• Multi Genere nature of the bible

• Eschatology is essential in informing how you shape your fundamental worldview

31:47 City Square Podcast and Covid-19

• Origin of name and logo

• Importance of talking to real people about who they are, what they do, and their faith

• Power of Stories

• Today and in the bible

• Authenticity

• Fandoms

• Covid and fake sports fans

45:20 Differences Between Lutheran and Reformed Theology

• John and Micah discuss Baptism

• Martin Luther

• Lord's Supper

• Christology

• Ecclesiology

• global church's view of Jesus' presence

53:54 How to connect with City Square and Micah and John

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78. The Role of Propaganda in Abusive Relationships with Derek Kreider

About this Episode

Derek Kreider, host of pacifist podcast “The Fourth Way,” joins Craig for a discussion on his latest season about propaganda. What is propaganda? Who propagandizes? And what benefits do they receive from doing so? From personal relationships, church institutions and the state, propaganda plays a part in how people organise themselves and Derek and Craig discuss them all.

The conversation starts with institutionalised abuse within the Southern Baptist Convention and how poorly churches deal with allegations of sexual abuse. Every year allegations of sexual misconduct are the church’s biggest problem. Even higher-ups who are not abusers are incentivized to cover up for underlings abusing their authority to keep the money flowing. We also learn that propaganda is not just what is communicated, but also includes leaving out important information, in this case to avoid “tarnishing God’s reputation” or other reasonable-sounding excuses.

Next, they discuss state propaganda. The state is basically an abuser who feels the need to control through the usual methods: charisma, controlling the flow of information and if these things fail then resorting to violence. Finally, Craig gets vulnerable about his abusive second marriage, the isolation and altercations, ending the episode with a note of hope for those who believe they are stuck in a situation of domestic violence: it is possible to escape.

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Episode Timestamps:

3:08 - Who is Derek Kreider?

• Raised conservative with Christian education

• Likes apologetics

• Currently in Romania as a missionary

4:22 – What is causing the rise in atheism? 

• Institutionalising religion ruins it

• There’s a lot of people leaving the church in America, but it’s the institutions they are leaving

• Church could also be people gathered in Jesus’ name

9:19 – The Fourth Way Podcast

• 2016 and the election of Donald Trump made Derek want to start a podcast

• The ends don’t justify the means, but the evangelical community tried to justify Trump’s actions

• Consequentialism

• Watched a video on pacifism

• Pacifism works better than grasping for power in the political realm

• Made the podcast to explore his own Christian reasoning

• The name comes from Walter Wink’s “The Third Way” but Pacifism is a fourth way, not fight, flight or freeze, but being active in pacifism

• Families who allow their loved ones killers live on death row rather than have them killed have changed those people

• Pacifism requires a whole lot more creativity to solve problems

• It brings the humanity back to the killer 

• There is nothing in the writings of the early church that indicate they were not pacifists

20:06 – What’s happening with the Southern Baptists?

• Recently it has come to light that some of their prominent leaders have abused people and other leaders have covered it up

• Then asked others to be silent about it

• Rachael Denhollander – What is a Girl Worth?

• Famous for coming forward after being abused by a doctor

• Talks about how terrible the church was at dealing with that

• Became an advocate for abuse within the Southern Baptist Church

• Although it’s not specific to the Southern Baptist Church

• Sexual allegations are the biggest problems for church every year

• When people take advantage of their positions of authority it doesn’t look like Jesus

• There should not be flawed human beings being given power in the church

• “It shall not be so among you”

• Individuals must take personal responsibility for their actions

• A lot of times power ends up corrupting people

• The Southern Baptist Convention also had leadership that covered up abuse

• In order to keep their own power

• So they don’t loose funding or control

• Do it in the name of Jesus – don’t want Him to look bad

• This is simple consequentialism

• After studying conspiracies for a year Derek thinks lots of people can hide a conspiracy

• This is not a uniquely church thing, people are corrupt

• A new structure would be full of people doing the same thing

• Maybe people are pulling back from the church because it looks just like government politics

• Sometimes members of churches solely blame individuals for problems that may be systemic

• Pastors are celebrities not shepherds, leading to people abusing power

35:09 – Propaganda, the state and abusers

• Politicians are going to go wherever the funding comes from

• This is a structural problem

• Propaganda is 100% intentional

• But its often done by people who are sincere about their cause

• A jerk on a power trip is easier to disbelieve

• Everyone propagandises

• Derek educates his kids therefore by some definitions he propagandises them

• We use the word for education that we don’t like

• In the Southern Baptists the higher-ups silence the news media that’s also propaganda

• Because it shapes your understanding

• The higher-ups say they prefer to highlight the good and leave out the bad

• It’s propaganda to leave information out

• Its an intricate web of self-justification and gaslighting

• Trump was worse on the second amendment than Obama

• Jacques Ellul – Propaganda and The Technological Society

• Propaganda produces extreme polarization

• And other quotes that could have been written yesterday

• Propaganda seeks to isolate individuals

• Repeats simple content

• Creates a problem to resolve then offers itself as a saviour

• Abusers do the same thing

• Craig’s second marriage was abusive like this

• Derek’s episode about marital abuse: Propaganda and Domestic Abusers

• You can escape an abusive relationship and God won’t be offended

• Things escalate when the abuser feels like they are out of control

• Craig’s second wife threw knives and had him arrested

• Then moved in next door when he left

• Its different in every situation

• David Graber – The Dawn of Everything

• Talks about how the state functions

• The state is basically an abuser who needs control

• Violence is risky but effective if you are stronger

• Information can also be used to control

• Charisma can be used to control others, this is the most effective

• States work like this too, when charisma (stories) stops working then they try manipulation then violence

• Abusers isolate their victims

1:00:21 – The conspiracy of corporatism

• How do we discern truth and how are beliefs formed?

• How was propaganda implemented?

• A 70 episode series on propaganda could have been much larger

• Corporations and businesses propaganda

• How do they do it?

• What effect does it have?

• What should you look out for?

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46. Who is your God? with ian minielly

Former Green Beret Ian Minielly joins us in this episode to talk about Christians and the military. Ian joined the army after college because he didn’t have a better direction for his life. After many years, he became a Christian and chose not to reenlist. Ian now serves as a Southern Baptist Pastor and has written several books about different issues, and encourages young Southern Baptist church kids not to join the military.

As Christians, we are called to love, not kill. Ian has seen firsthand how the work our military does is not accomplishing any good; it is harming innocent people -- both the foreign nationals and the US soldiers. He is a Southern Baptist pastor now and works to change people’s perspective on the state and how it relates to Jesus and the church.

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Timestamps:

2:50 How Ian got here

•   Didn’t like the life timeline presented to him

  • Career, 2 marriages, retirement, pain, death

  • So, he joined the army

    • Infantry → Green Beret

    • Found Jesus

      • Told Him, “If my unit doesn’t kill a soul this deployment, I will not re-enlist.”

        • They didn’t kill a soul.

      • Went to seminary (for free)

      • Now in full-time ministry

8:50 War

• “What we're doing has nothing to do with what Jesus asked us to do… He didn't ask us, he commanded us to love our neighbor. That includes not killing them, I would suppose, right?” -Craig

• What the military does overseas has nothing to do with Jesus

  • In fact, they command you to not share Him with anyone while you’re deployed

    • So, Ian left a box of sermon tapes with a local contact at the end of one deployment

15:42 Guns

• Passivism

• Craig bought a gun to shoot intruders, but now, only shoots recreationally

  • “That’s not an invitation for anybody to come and give me any trouble. I’ll give you a hug. I’m not gonna shoot you, but I’ll give you a hug.” - Craig

• Ian is a militant pacifist

  • “I'm not going to kick in your door and shoot you, but I might shoot you if you kick mine in.” - Ian

    • Unless you’re just stealing

• Argument: I’m being violent toward my family members if I let someone else attack them

  • “If somebody comes to try and mess with my cats, we're going to have a problem. I'm not gonna shoot you, but we're gonna wrestle.” - Craig

  • You can harm someone without killing them

    • Martial arts

    • Break their arm

    • Stop them from harming others, but do not kill

21:03 The Violence of Government

• Love your neighbor

  • It’s not loving to put somebody bad in charge of them

    • US government is repeatedly guilty of mass murderer

    • Everyone thinks their side is the lesser of two evils

      • They’re both evil.

22:27 Jesus is the Epitome of Everything a Bad Roman Wants to Be

• “When the Messiah shows up and he is nothing like what they are looking for, they totally miss him because they’re looking for majesty and a big white horse and a crown and a sword. And he shows up wearing flip flops and a robe and saying, ‘Love your neighbor.’” -Ian

• 5 Controversies

  • 22:45 1. Jesus forgives and heals a lame man (Mark 2:1-12)

    • Only God has the authority to forgive sins

      • He proved He had the authority by healing

        • If Jesus is God, that means He’s the Messiah

          • If He’s the Messiah, that means He wasn’t there to conquer and give the Jews power

          • He was giving the Kingdom to the lowly

          • His goal was not to glorify the religious leaders

          • American Christians would gladly crucify Him today, just as the Jews did then

  • 26:43 Sidetrack: Do we love our neighbors?

    • We hear that preached all the time, but has it actually clicked?

    • Do even love Jesus?

    •  We love Jesus as if he in the state are equal partners

      • We've lost our first love

    • Church attendance and baptism numbers are low

    • Most pastors are thrilled to have our troops deployed

      •  Ian is a unicorn

  • 28:13 2. Jesus associates with sinners (Mark 2:13-17)

    • Pharisees wonder if a righteous man can do that because he’d get soiled

      • Christians today act the same way

        • Churches rejecting gay people

      • Jesus hung out with

        • Gay people

        • Prostitutes

        • Druggies

    • Where can we hear the Word of God preached without hate?

    • What people do is none of my business. I've been instructed to love 

    • Much of the church outside the Jewish community started out practicing homosexuality as part of their religious life

      • If the church had always blocked out gay people from entering, there would not be a church today

    • Southern Baptist churches would not perform a gay wedding, but they welcome anyone of any lifestyle in the door

      • If they're not allowed in the church to hear the Word, how are they going to find Jesus?

      • The Pharisees kept those people away

        • Their power depended on division

          • They had to make the distinction that they were better than others

          • Very little faith involved

        • Jesus ate with them

          • They heard His message because He saw them

    • Another example: Woman caught in adultery (John 8:1-11)

      • Pharisees test Jesus

        • The Law says to stone her to death

        • Jesus asks whoever has never sinned to throw the first stone

          • They all walk away

        • He tells the lady she’s forgiven and to stop sinning

          • Clean slate

          • Even when we do it again, we get another clean slate and encouragement to try again

          • He forgives every single type of sin

          • Other people’s sins are none of our business

  • 37:30 3. Jesus’ disciples aren’t fasting (Mark 2:18-22)

    • Pharisees point it out so people will see Him as a bad Jew

    • Fasting was a very visible practice

      • Makes one look righteous

    • Jesus says they’re not fasting because He is with them

      • They’ll fast when He leaves

      • We’re in a fast from Jesus, waiting for His return

  • 40:00 4. Keeping the Sabbath (Mark 2:23-28)

    • Pharisees tried to make Jesus look unworthy because He and His followers weren't keeping the Sabbath rules

    • Jesus showed them at the Sabbath is a gift to man, not about rule-following

    • They had taken God's rules and elevated them above God

      • The Sabbath is meant to help us grow closer to God

  • 41:25 5. Doing good on the Sabbath (Mark 3:1-6)

    • Jesus healed the man with the crippled hand

      • Violated the regulations

    • It's always the right time to do good

      • You don't take a Sabbath from doing good

      • It's never time to do wrong

  • Making the world a better place is simple: just love each other

43:27 Churches are empty because we’ve made the state the highest god

• God gets relegated to Sundays and maybe Wednesdays

• Nobody wants to believe in Somebody that we don’t actually believe in

• Faithfulness to God almost always means we won't be faithful to the government

• We essentially have a national church because we back up everything the United States government does

  • People can't see (or won't admit) that everything it does is evil

  • They support the troops

• The five controversies basically boil down to this: Where do you put the state/your governing authority and where do you put God?

45:53 Connection between church and military

• Southern Baptist churches are the number one biggest supporter of the military

  • They believe it honorable to send their kids to fight overseas

  •  Why are they the strongest supporters? 

    • What are they hearing in Sunday School? 

    • What is going wrong with the way we pray and preach?

    • Why do they want to send their kids over to fight people who don't even want to fight us?

• If only Air Force planes dropped Bibles instead of bombs

• Helping kids decide not to join the military

  • Only one Ian talked to still signed up

  • Telling them the statistics of divorces, alcoholism, and infidelity among military spouses

  • Proving that our governments never been right about anything, and killing the people they tell you to won't accomplish anything

    •  Where did we get the right to go into another country and kill people?

51:01 Who are we fighting?

• Afghani villagers came across American troops and thought they must be Russian. They didn't know anything about 9-11 or even where New York was

  • Do the Christians supporting these wars understand that the people in these countries have nothing to do with what we’re supposedly fighting about?

    • We're destroying their land, and they've never even heard of us

  • Our troops traveled around and millions of dollars of equipment with guns pointing in all directions from their tanks

    • The only people around were unarmed villagers wearing flip-flops and simple robes who just wanted to sit around and enjoy life

  • Many suicide bombers were coerced into doing it

    •  Oftentimes, their families were tied up at gunpoint

    • OR They are angry because the Americans killed their family, so they are getting revenge

• God is everywhere in Afghanistan

  •  but will those people ever accept Jesus since He's associated with our country?

  •  Will they ever listen to an evangelist?

57:35 DHS is a terrible part of the government

• Carlos Morales used to work for CPS; now speaks against them

  • Legally Kidnapped book

• Ian’s book about his foster daughter

59:15 Ian’s other books

• Revoked Consent

  • Story about fighting the government and winning

• The Genetic God

  • Story about people finding evidence for God in their DNA

• Train, Deploy, and Report

  • Book on evangelism