101. Mormon Teachings and Anarchy: Uncovering the Path to Freedom

When Casey Beres walked away from the Mormon Church, he didn't just leave behind a congregation; he discovered a tapestry of anarchy and voluntaryism hidden within its teachings. In this profound discussion, we find unexpected solidarity with anarchist thought, as Casey unveils how the Book of Mormon's scriptures and doctrines mirror the principles of societal autonomy and individual freedom. Our exchange traverses religious and ideological frontiers, inviting both Mormons and non-Mormons to embrace the underlying values that bind us together as a global family. 

The conversation shifts as we contemplate the personal changes spurred by political disillusionment and debates over the constitution, intensified by the pandemic. As we consider the emotional impact of mandates on both individuals and communities, we delve into the debris of societal pressures. In doing so, we discover a widespread desire for a support network and a community that values individual choice, and we explore the role of authority and governance from a perspective of spiritual enlightenment, not political will.

Wrapping up, we look beyond the horizon of today's interpretations of LDS texts, questioning traditional views on government, war, and America's place in divine providence. We explore the notion of modern slavery within our own societal structures and discuss the frustrations of many modern Christians with the current state of affairs. 

We question divine providence in the American founding and probe the implications of the government's hand in modern slavery. Our quest for understanding takes us from the battlefield of American history to the heart of Christian anarchy, culminating in a call to action for the Mormon community to consider the anarchy threaded within their beliefs. Whether your interest lies in faith, freedom, or the crossroads where they meet, join us for a stimulating conversation that promises to challenge and enlighten.

Connect with the Casey Beres:

Substack: mackenziesspleen.substack.com

Bandcamp: Potbelly MacKraken

Key Moments:

00:02 Anarchy and the Book of Mormon

• Introduction of Casey Beres to discuss anarchy in the Book of Mormon context.

• Exploration of Casey's journey from the Mormon Church to anarchist insights.

• Discussion on the resonance of anarchy and volunteerism with broader anarchist community.

• Emphasis on commonalities that unite humans beyond individual beliefs.

• Importance of open dialogue for understanding and breaking down barriers.

08:04 Churches and Conversion to Anarchy

• Personal reflections on church, faith, and non-traditional worship.

• Preference for intimate gatherings over structured church services.

• Influence of anarchy on views of authority and community.

• Disconnection felt in family-centric church settings.

• Journey from political apathy to anarchy, inspired by figures like Ron Paul and Michael Malice.

18:27 COVID Horror Stories and Vaccine Mandates

• Personal impact of COVID-19 mandates on an individual with Tourette syndrome.

• Challenges of job loss and societal exclusion due to mandates.

• Importance of support networks during challenging times.

• Conflicts between state and federal regulations during the pandemic.

• Reflections on varied societal and political responses to the pandemic.

25:12 Understanding the LDS Scriptural Canon

• Exploration of anarchy in Mormon scripture, addressing misconceptions.

• Clarification of 'D&C' and other foundational Mormon texts.

• Examination of ancient and modern societies in Mormon scripture through an anarchistic lens.

• Anarchistic interpretation of scriptural events like the flood.

32:13 Anarchy in the Book of Mormon

• Inspirational similarities between the Bible, Book of Mormon, and D&C.

• Discussion on societies transitioning to democracy and anarchy in the Book of Mormon.

• Analysis of anarchy and voluntarism in the Book of Mormon narratives.

• Challenges in reconciling certain D&C sections with anarchistic principles.

39:28 Government and Anarchy in LDS Scriptures

• Examination of contradictions in Doctrine and Covenants 134 regarding government.

• Analysis of government's role in violating individual rights despite claims of protection.

• Discussion on the compatibility of divine endorsement with flawed human government.

• Reflection on implications for libertarians, anarchists, and constitutional conservatives.

49:43 Beliefs on God, Constitution, and Slavery

• Relationship between religion, nationalism, and government in LDS context.

• Debate on divine inspiration of the U.S. Constitution and America's founding.

• Comparison of historical chattel slavery to modern governmental control.

• Discussion on advocating for change and the irony of 'leaving the country'.

59:30 Frustration of Modern Christians and Anarchism

• Reflection on the U.S.'s history of conflict and personal transition in political beliefs.

• Exploration of Christian anarchy and Jesus' teachings against hierarchical control.

• Critique of religious and political leadership's misuse of influence.

• Biblical perspective on authority and leadership contrary to oppressive power structures.

01:09:07 Promoting Anarchy in the Mormon Community

• Challenges and goals in introducing anarchism to the Mormon community.

• Engagement with influential figures and feedback from church members.

• Importance of gradual change, personal humility, and the impact of the Bad Roman Project.

• Encouragement for others to contribute to dialogue through various platforms.

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100. Christian Ethics and Stateless Societies: The Anarchist Approach of the Perry Family

In the 100th episode of the podcast, host Craig Harguess is joined by guests Sarah and Jeff Perry from Voluntaryism in Action for a captivating exploration into the confluence of Christian values and the philosophy of anarchy. This milestone episode delves into the nuances of Christian Anarchism and Voluntarism, examining the personal metamorphoses that steer individuals away from traditional political paradigms toward a life of voluntary statelessness underpinned by faith. 

Throughout the episode, Sarah and Jeff Perry share the hurdles encountered in seeking a like-minded community and the challenges a society deeply ingrained with state-oriented ideologies poses. They shed light on the essence of fellowship and kinship, even in the digital sphere, for those who perceive themselves as misfits in a world unprepared for such radical ideas. The conversation also touches on the difficulty of communicating complex ideas over social media and the importance of giving people grace and meeting them where they are, as they were once in a similar position. The group emphasizes that the people they may joke about now were once reflections of their past selves, highlighting the transformative journey that led them to their current ideological stance. 

Taking an unexpected detour, the discussion ventures into the rustic world of homesteading, contrasting the merits of duck and chicken eggs and unpacking the symbolism it holds for Christian anarchists. This segment uncovers the layers of self-reliance and philosophical maturation, accompanied by a narrative of Jeff’s military service and how he underwent a profound ideological shift towards anarchism. 

The episode critically addresses the contentious interpretation of Romans 13 from an anarchist perspective, scrutinizing the alignment—or lack thereof—between modern democratic establishments and the teachings of Jesus. The discourse celebrates the significance of genuine leadership as demonstrated by Jesus, compared to the forceful rule often exhibited by earthly authorities. 

The discussion also spotlights the impactful initiatives of Voluntaryism in Action, emphasizing the human connections nurtured through voluntary charity. This starkly contrasts the impersonal touch of institutionalized aid, underscoring the human and spiritual dimensions of giving.

 Listeners are treated to a blend of humor, social commentary, and personal anecdotes that exemplify the intertwining of Christianity's core tenets with the principles of voluntaryism. As the 100th episode of the podcast, this thought-provoking journey offers an inspiring vision of community, support, and voluntary action shaped by love, grace, understanding, and Christian values.

Connect with the Perrys:

Website

Podcast: Voluntary View on Spotify, iTunes, Youtube

Key Moments:

00:02 Exploring Christian Anarchism and Voluntaryism

• Introduction to the intersection of Christianity and statelessness.

• Personal journeys from conventional politics to stateless existence based on Christian values.

• Importance of community, even if primarily online.

01:11 The Reach of the Bad Roman

• Discussion on the international reach of the podcast.

• Personal reflections on discovering Christian Anarchy.

• Surprise at finding a community with similar beliefs.

09:08 Duck Eggs and Freshly Laid Eggs

• Discussion on homesteading, duck vs. chicken eggs.

• Nutritional content and taste comparison.

• Personal anecdotes about self-sufficiency and philosophical evolution.

15:22 - Military Transition to Anarchism & Non-Judgmental Dialogue

• A former military medical officer's ideological shift towards anarchism.

• Impact of literature and libertarian thought on worldview.

• Emphasis on non-judgmental engagement within the anarchist community.

23:13 Christian Anarchism and the Bad Project

• Craig's journey from neoconservatism to Christian anarchism.

• Misconceptions about Christian Anarchy clarified.

• Sharing personal revelations about faith and statelessness.

26:41 Facebook Thread Drama and Miscommunication

• Addressing miscommunication and drama in a Facebook thread.

• Emphasis on understanding different perspectives within anarchism.

30:05 Understanding Anarchy and Romans 13 (11 Minutes)

• Interpretation of Romans 13 in the context of Christian anarchy.

• Biblical examples of resistance to secular authorities.

• Addressing objections related to submission to governing authorities.

33:57 Not Voting and Complaining About Government

• Discussion on Craig's decision not to vote and its implications.

• The counterintuitive nature of the argument that non-voters cannot complain.

38:41 Voluntarism and Anarchy

• Explanation of voluntarism as a subset of anarchy.

• Voluntarism focuses on voluntary interactions without coercion.

41:22 Religion, Government, and Accountability

• Differences between authority figures and authoritarianism.

• Critique of representative democracy and accountability.

• Reflection on the role of law enforcement and early church teachings.

49:57 Christian Anarchism and Voluntaryism Action

• Exploration of how Voluntaryism in Action embodies Christian Anarchist principles.

• Discussion on the organization's initiatives and community impact.

• Tension between Christianity and statism in church settings.

• Discomfort with nationalistic practices in worship.

• Early Christian teachings versus modern interpretations post-Constantine.

55:42 Voluntaryism

• Origins and evolution of a charitable organization, Voluntaryism in Action.

• Challenges and misconceptions surrounding non-profit work.

• Importance of voluntary giving and the impact of government programs on charity.

57:07 Obtaining & Maintaining 501(c)3 Status

• The process and challenges of obtaining 501(c)3 status for the organization.

• Insights into maintaining non-profit status and its importance.

01:04:18 Voluntaryism in Action

• Celebration of the work and achievements of Voluntaryism in Action.

• Personal anecdotes that underscore the organization's ethos.

01:09:36 Discussion on Voluntaryism in Action

• Impactful work of Voluntaryism in Action aligned with Christian values.

• Encouragement for listener support through donations or involvement.

• Challenges of social media censorship.

01:11:39 Twitter Campaigns and Content Restrictions

• Addressing the impact of content restrictions on social media campaigns.

• The organization's approach to creating and sharing provocative content.

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90. Ideologies, Freedom & Critical Thinking with Mat and Phil from the Way of Life Podcast

About this Episode

Get ready for an enlightening journey with Mat and Phil from the Way of Life Podcast, as we delve into pressing topics that shape our everyday lives. Mat shares his background of growing up in Australia, being heavily involved in church, and pursuing pastoral ministry, while Phil gives an insight into his life as an underground coal miner and his interest in video production. The conversation also dive into the importance of meeting people where they are and encouraging them to think critically about what they hear. 

In our current global climate, how can we ignore the ideological shifts happening all around us? Mat and Phil take us on a fascinating journey, exploring the transformation of the understanding of harm in the progressive movement and its impact on politics in the U.S. and Australia. We probe into the concept of democracy, examining its potential pitfalls, and discuss whether sources of information like TikTok are skewing our perception of harm. 

But we don’t stop there. Our conversation meanders into the realm of military alliances, political apathy, and the intertwining of governmental and religious institutions. We scrutinize the US-Australia military alliance, ponder the implications of an increasingly intrusive government, and discuss the possibility of a U.S. government collapse. Are our understandings of freedom without boundaries leading us astray? 

In the final part of our discussion, we explore how the concept of freedom without boundaries can lead to a herd mentality and discuss the necessity of teaching people to think independently. We also assess the intertwining of church and state in the United States and how this contrasts with the Australian church scene. Wrapping up, we share the mission of the Way of Life podcast – equipping people to think critically and fostering a space for open dialogue. So, buckle up and prepare to see the world through a unique lens!

Connect with Mat and Phil:

Facebook Way of Life Podcast

Youtube Way of Life Podcast

Spotify Way of Life Podcast

Apple Way of Life Podcast

Episode Timestamps:

01:39 Mat’s Background

• Christian 

• drummer

• Works with Youth at Church now

• Meeting people where they’re at

05:33 Phil’s Background

• Underground coal miner

• Video producer

• Joined ministry at 13

• Started a podcast with Mat

09:25 Leaving Mainstream Media for Alternative Sources

• Getting information from podcasts

• Media Landscape in Australia

• Liberal vs. labor parties

• Democracy and tyranny

• Does the government ensure peace?

15:14 Shifting Definition of Harm among generations

• Physical harm vs. psychological harm 

• Tik Tok, Podcasts, Youtube raising a generation

• Role of feedback in forming ideas/beliefs

• In such polarized times people are afraid to say something doesn’t make sense

• The middle has been eroded

• Idiocracy (2006)

25:19 Australian and US Government Alliance

• American government is entertainment for Austrsilians

• Click-bait

• Gary Johnson

• Democrats being anti-war in the past

• Yemen and Saudis

• Jesus worked towards peace and the government alway does harm

• Church is outsourcing charity to the state

• Australians don’t like to talk about government as openly as Americans

• Christian identity is wrapped up in political identity in from the Australian point of view

• Fine in australia for enrolling to vote and not submitting ballot sheet

• “Donkey vote”

• Crocodile Dundee

• Australians a generally trusting

• Government was less invasive

• John Anderson

• Small government vs. what exist today

• Can we go back?

• Patriot Act

• US involvement with Ukraine

• Oil Protectors of America

• Poppy fields in Afghanistan 

• Peter Zhan

• US’s role in global trade route “protection”

45:37 How Australian churches Interact with Government

• Politics does not make it into the pulpit

• Some Christian lobbyist groups

50:51 Way of Life Podcast

• post-Christian nation

• Freedom without boundary

• Never give more than three options in retail

• Crippled by information young people go with the herd

• Being very passionate about something you have not thought very hard on

• John 14:6

• Doing show live because Q&A is big portion of the show

• Learning to disagree with others in a healthy way

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78. The Role of Propaganda in Abusive Relationships with Derek Kreider

About this Episode

Derek Kreider, host of pacifist podcast “The Fourth Way,” joins Craig for a discussion on his latest season about propaganda. What is propaganda? Who propagandizes? And what benefits do they receive from doing so? From personal relationships, church institutions and the state, propaganda plays a part in how people organise themselves and Derek and Craig discuss them all.

The conversation starts with institutionalised abuse within the Southern Baptist Convention and how poorly churches deal with allegations of sexual abuse. Every year allegations of sexual misconduct are the church’s biggest problem. Even higher-ups who are not abusers are incentivized to cover up for underlings abusing their authority to keep the money flowing. We also learn that propaganda is not just what is communicated, but also includes leaving out important information, in this case to avoid “tarnishing God’s reputation” or other reasonable-sounding excuses.

Next, they discuss state propaganda. The state is basically an abuser who feels the need to control through the usual methods: charisma, controlling the flow of information and if these things fail then resorting to violence. Finally, Craig gets vulnerable about his abusive second marriage, the isolation and altercations, ending the episode with a note of hope for those who believe they are stuck in a situation of domestic violence: it is possible to escape.

Find Blue Ribbon Logistics: 

YouTube

Facebook

Spotify

Episode Timestamps:

3:08 - Who is Derek Kreider?

• Raised conservative with Christian education

• Likes apologetics

• Currently in Romania as a missionary

4:22 – What is causing the rise in atheism? 

• Institutionalising religion ruins it

• There’s a lot of people leaving the church in America, but it’s the institutions they are leaving

• Church could also be people gathered in Jesus’ name

9:19 – The Fourth Way Podcast

• 2016 and the election of Donald Trump made Derek want to start a podcast

• The ends don’t justify the means, but the evangelical community tried to justify Trump’s actions

• Consequentialism

• Watched a video on pacifism

• Pacifism works better than grasping for power in the political realm

• Made the podcast to explore his own Christian reasoning

• The name comes from Walter Wink’s “The Third Way” but Pacifism is a fourth way, not fight, flight or freeze, but being active in pacifism

• Families who allow their loved ones killers live on death row rather than have them killed have changed those people

• Pacifism requires a whole lot more creativity to solve problems

• It brings the humanity back to the killer 

• There is nothing in the writings of the early church that indicate they were not pacifists

20:06 – What’s happening with the Southern Baptists?

• Recently it has come to light that some of their prominent leaders have abused people and other leaders have covered it up

• Then asked others to be silent about it

• Rachael Denhollander – What is a Girl Worth?

• Famous for coming forward after being abused by a doctor

• Talks about how terrible the church was at dealing with that

• Became an advocate for abuse within the Southern Baptist Church

• Although it’s not specific to the Southern Baptist Church

• Sexual allegations are the biggest problems for church every year

• When people take advantage of their positions of authority it doesn’t look like Jesus

• There should not be flawed human beings being given power in the church

• “It shall not be so among you”

• Individuals must take personal responsibility for their actions

• A lot of times power ends up corrupting people

• The Southern Baptist Convention also had leadership that covered up abuse

• In order to keep their own power

• So they don’t loose funding or control

• Do it in the name of Jesus – don’t want Him to look bad

• This is simple consequentialism

• After studying conspiracies for a year Derek thinks lots of people can hide a conspiracy

• This is not a uniquely church thing, people are corrupt

• A new structure would be full of people doing the same thing

• Maybe people are pulling back from the church because it looks just like government politics

• Sometimes members of churches solely blame individuals for problems that may be systemic

• Pastors are celebrities not shepherds, leading to people abusing power

35:09 – Propaganda, the state and abusers

• Politicians are going to go wherever the funding comes from

• This is a structural problem

• Propaganda is 100% intentional

• But its often done by people who are sincere about their cause

• A jerk on a power trip is easier to disbelieve

• Everyone propagandises

• Derek educates his kids therefore by some definitions he propagandises them

• We use the word for education that we don’t like

• In the Southern Baptists the higher-ups silence the news media that’s also propaganda

• Because it shapes your understanding

• The higher-ups say they prefer to highlight the good and leave out the bad

• It’s propaganda to leave information out

• Its an intricate web of self-justification and gaslighting

• Trump was worse on the second amendment than Obama

• Jacques Ellul – Propaganda and The Technological Society

• Propaganda produces extreme polarization

• And other quotes that could have been written yesterday

• Propaganda seeks to isolate individuals

• Repeats simple content

• Creates a problem to resolve then offers itself as a saviour

• Abusers do the same thing

• Craig’s second marriage was abusive like this

• Derek’s episode about marital abuse: Propaganda and Domestic Abusers

• You can escape an abusive relationship and God won’t be offended

• Things escalate when the abuser feels like they are out of control

• Craig’s second wife threw knives and had him arrested

• Then moved in next door when he left

• Its different in every situation

• David Graber – The Dawn of Everything

• Talks about how the state functions

• The state is basically an abuser who needs control

• Violence is risky but effective if you are stronger

• Information can also be used to control

• Charisma can be used to control others, this is the most effective

• States work like this too, when charisma (stories) stops working then they try manipulation then violence

• Abusers isolate their victims

1:00:21 – The conspiracy of corporatism

• How do we discern truth and how are beliefs formed?

• How was propaganda implemented?

• A 70 episode series on propaganda could have been much larger

• Corporations and businesses propaganda

• How do they do it?

• What effect does it have?

• What should you look out for?

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74. Can We Love More Than We Hate with Hodey Johns

About this Episode

This week Craig is joined by Hodey Johns, co-host of the Enemy of My Enemy podcast from the We Are Libertarians Network. They discuss focussing on love that looks like how God loves us, contrasting these with social media discussions that look more like hate. They talk about political statements that assume God hates those on the wrong end of our favorite policies. However, Christians shouldn't even be on the political spectrum. Can the love of Jesus be made visible when we fight online over our political positioning?

The Israelites received laws from the very hand of God, but they missed His heart for humanity to follow their consciences in loving their neighbors. Not even Jewish regulations could justify people in the sight of God because love is the fulfillment of the law. Jesus proved this when he righteously ignored the Levitical laws, and the Pharisees proved that one could follow the rules perfectly and still be unrighteous.

Unfortunately, we haven't learned this; hate may be more natural to Christians than love. We fail to worship God according to His desires when we fail to love those around us. As Christians, rather than looking for the boundaries we should not step on and assume that the rest of our conduct is loving, we need to seek the narrow path and aggressively love everyone, including our enemies. After all, this is how Christ first loved us.

Hodey Johns:

·       Facebook

·       Instagram

·       Twitter

Episode Timestamps:

1:56 – Introduction to Hodey Johns

·       Loves debates

·       Theologian

·       Writes about video games

·       Parents weren't very interested in their own Christian faith

o   Hodey was self-taught in Christianity and the Bible from a young age

·       Became a Mormon for 15 years

·       Lived all over the states

o   Noticed that Christian culture differs from place to place

6:19 – Christians on Social Media

·       Do more Christians need to put themselves out there on social media?

·       People don't change their minds in an instant or one conversation

o   They contemplate new ideas for a while

o   Like planting a new tree, waiting and tasting its fruit

·       We can't let others do the theological thinking for us

o   Not even religious folks

o   Jesus called the Pharisees a brood of vipers

·       No Christian has everything figured out

o   Christianity is a process

o   But we don't need to worry because we know who God is

16:14 – Love one another and love your enemy

·       Christians have a tough time balancing being in the world but not of the world

·       Thankfully, it's not all over once you sin

·       When you sin and recover, you get better

·       Christians wield hate and fear as a conversion method

o   We have all experienced hate

o   As Christians, we know that hate is evil

·       Love is the highest commandment

o   Jesus loved us and died for us

o   Would we give up our lives for those we are fighting with on social media

·       Love is not just the absence of hate

·       We ought to be aggressively loving

o   Christianity is a narrow path

·       Christianity should not be us saying, "God opposes [insert pet peeve here]"

·       There is real hate from both left- and right-wing Christians

·       Christians should not be on a political spectrum

·       Biden's student loan debt write-offs are not forgiveness

·       The left likes to think it has a monopoly on love

·       Jesus only spoke in parables to the public

o   Stories of love and goodness

o   We should be using stories too and asking, "who is the loving neighbour?"

·       Moral choices are required for good deeds to be produced

·       Paying taxes is not a virtue

33:09 – How ethical is the law?

·       Immigrants from Mexico who come to better their lives are human beings too

o   They cross an imaginary line to come here

o   The law of the land is in opposition to God's law

o   They only come to eat and feed their families

o   Christians don't seem to understand this

o   They are still image bearers of God

·       Jewish law was superior to today's laws

o   They still condemned people

o   They still allowed for the killing of Jesus Christ

·       The Bible can be summarised as people trying to justify themselves by the law

o   It was to show the way to being led by the Holy Spirit

o   It was to give the Israelites time to escape the slave mentality of Egypt

·       Where is your faith?

o   Do politicians protect you and your nation?

o   It should be in Jesus Christ

o   Why are Christians scared of immigrants?

o   In Jesus' death and resurrection Christianity grew

·       Christianity's hey-day was when Christians were stateless

·       The Israelites' laws changed from chapter to chapter of Leviticus

o   The law was being revised constantly

§  God was stable; His people were not

o   They couldn't enter the promised land until they realised the law could not save them

·       Even the wandering Israelites went astray when they tried to turn their relationship with God into a law-based system

40:19 – We can't legislate love.

·       The complex legal system that we have cannot be used to promote Christian values

o   The Israelites walked together with God and couldn't make the law work

·       Laws are written on paper, but let's try to figure out what is right

·       The will of God is to love one another

o   Love is the command

o   We worship someone else when we fail to love

·       When Christians think they are God, they become hateful

·       Are you really a Christian if you are not moving towards love?

·       Are we being motivated by the love of Christ?

45:57 – Church is unappealing when we don't have love

·       Church attendance has dropped off since 2013

·       There are reasons why people don't go to church

o   Hate-filled sermons

o   Hate-filled conversations with people after church

·       Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax-collectors

o   We should also be showing them the love of Christ

·       Jesus' measure of how to get into heaven was to forgive and not judge others

o   That is mentioned more often than other methods usually suggested

·       Homosexuality is not a sin

·       Whosoever is angry with his brother is at risk of being judged

·        Jesus said himself that if you call someone gay, you are in danger of being judged

·       Wanting to punish people crossing a border is wrong

·       Jesus ignored the law and healed on the Sabbath

o   This is why Hodey trashes the law

o   Jesus never denied breaking the Sabbath

·       The scriptures are stories of people working out morality in a complex world

·       The transformation of your heart is all that matters

·       You can break the law and be right

·       You can follow the Levitical law and be wrong

o   The Pharisees proved it

·       Jesus ignored the laws, so we can ignore immoral laws also

1:05:47 – Smoked meats

·       During covid, Hodey picked up a smoking meats hobby

·       Smoking meat makes Hodey a better person

o   It's a philosophical journey

o   The community is full of nice people

·       Well-cooked brisket is a bad piece of meat turned good through cooking

·       Mesquite trees make the best-smoked meats

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