69. From angry An-Cap to peaceful Christian with John Krueger

About this Episode

Craig is joined by John Krueger for a conversation about his journey from being an angry Anarcho-Capitalist to a peaceful Anarcho-Christian. Unjust police killings, SWAT raids gone wrong and harsh lockdowns made John angry. He was eager to learn how to use a gun and imagined himself needing to protect his family from police violence. In the midst of this, the Holy Spirit met John and showed him a peaceful option.

Libertarian philosophy is peaceful, but we need Jesus and His word to have the whole picture. Craig and John advocate for Christian pacifism and examine what was going on in their hearts at the points when they both contemplated joining the military. Craig and John discuss the libertarian and Christian anarchist positions on the decriminalization of drugs, the real needs of terrorists, the US at war, gun control, and other contentious current issues.

The state is coercion and violence. Laws are enforced with fines that are begrudgingly paid to avoid the threat of violence or time spent in a cage. You cannot make people peaceful like this, using the state’s methods. But rather, we need to be those who allow the Holy Spirit to work in us to change the hearts and minds of those surrounding us; that is how social change works in the Kingdom. Let’s listen to Jesus and do things His way, forsaking violence and anger. Let’s work towards peace.

Connect with John Krueger on

• Practical Christology

• TikTok

Episode Timestamps:

1:27 – Who is John Krueger?

• From Columbus, Ohio

  • Grew up attending church

• 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 stood out

  • Paul writes about grace

• Journey to anarchism

  • Read Blue Like Jazz

    • Jesus was not a republican or a conservative

    • Became politically independent

  • Eventually considered voting

    • Began researching libertarianism

      • Clicked with his understanding of the Grace of God

  • Took a few more years to become an anarcho-capitalist

8:58 – Libertarians, drugs, and terrorists

• It’s easy to understand decriminalizing marijuana 

• Harder to understand decriminalizing heroin use

  • People shouldn’t be locked in a cage for it

  • People should be free to make their own choices

    • Provided they aren’t hurting others

• Osama Bin Laden needed Jesus

  • Not bombs

  • We can’t bomb people into peace

    • If we bomb all sinners, there will be no one left

• John and Craig let go of the war stuff last

  • The history of the Middle East is important

  • The US is still at war

    • More people are mad at the US for continuously bombing them

• Jesus said in His Kingdom:

  • You rule by washing feet

    • Only pagans lord it over their subjects

  • But instead, our “Christian Nation” goes to war

    • To spread democracy

• We don’t need the government for roads

• We don’t need police

• Losing friends because of speaking out about:

  • Getting troops home

  • Veteran suicides

  • Broken men and families

  • Sending the poor to fight a rich man’s war

20:11 – Craig and John considered joining the military

• Craig wanted to kill people out of anger after 911

  • Application rejected

    • 4 pounds over the weight limit

• John wanted to join the military because he felt powerless

  • Wanted to be great in battle - like David

  • Experienced God’s compassion for those killed on both sides

• Christians still justify war and killing

  • Jesus said when you have seen me, you have seen the Father

  • There is nothing about Jesus’ life that says you can kill in war

• Pacifism is the way for Christians

  • Craig still gets a hard time from Christians for his pacifist stance

  • The early church was 100% pacifist

    • Even to their own deaths

  • Jesus healed the Roman soldier and admonished Peter

    • When Jesus disarmed Peter, he disarmed every Christian

26:24 – Libertarians and Gun Control

• After shootings those on the left talk about taking away guns

• But guns will be taken away by force

  • Giving more power to the state

• Need to study history

• We don’t advocate for gun control

  • It’s enforced by violence

  • We should bear God’s peace instead

• The left sees calls to reduce state size as calls to let people starve

• John does not own guns, 

  • Only advocates for less government action

• We don’t use the state for any reason

• The same people who take guns away are those who shoot unarmed black men

• Fines are enforced through the threat of violence

• The ‘hero’ who ended the life of a would-be shooter still ended a life

• Jesus would not be training churches to enact violence

• We are here to bring the gospel to people

37:10 – From angry An-Cap to peaceful Christian Anarchist

• When John was an An-Cap he was angry at the state

  • Police killings made him angry

  • Made him want to get into guns

• Angry at government shutdowns because of shutdowns

• Holy Spirit showed him it would be better to defy the government in peaceful ways

  • Sneakily helping people

  • Blessing those who curse

  • Not needing to worry about what to say in front of judges

• Libertarians are never happy with the government

  • No matter who is in power they are stuffing everything up

  • Anger is not the fruit of the spirit

• Romans 11-14 need to be read together

  • Our heart position should be peaceful

• Libertarians need Jesus to have the full picture

42:48 – Romans 13 and libertarianism

• “Submit” and “obey” are not the same

  • When Christians get it wrong: 

    • They end up supporting government atrocities

    • Lives will be ruined

    • The state becomes an idol

• The early church withheld communion from people who worked for the state

  • Unless people were already soldiers

    • And had sworn off killing or oppressing people

    • None wore their weapons

    • All were to serve

• Getting Christians into power will not help

  • It is no longer Christianity

• The power is the wrong power

  • The Holy Spirit is the only power we need

  • Political power is force

  • Christians do not need to take the ”Seven Mountains” of power

  • These do not sound like Jesus

• Polycarp would not denounce Jesus

  • In the face of his own death

  • King Jesus has never done me any harm

• Everything that the state does harms somebody in some fashion

  • If they are helping you, they are harming someone else

  • The state is not a protector

• Jesus Christ is the only King

  • He wants the best for us

54:12 – How should we pray for government?

• We should pray for government and leaders

  • Craig prays for the state to end

  • The current chaos is caused by the state

  • We need to follow Jesus and walk away

  • John prays for leadership to know the gospel

    • Not the American folklore

    • But the true gospel

• Craig will take the words of the early church fathers over pastors

  • When modern pastors disagree with the early church

  • They still screwed things up

  • They aren’t Jesus

  • They were closer in time to Jesus

  • We need to get back to that

    • What we are doing now as the church is not working

• The Reformers had a blind spot when it came to the church

  • They killed people

• The Anabaptists became the Mennonites and Amish

  • They were peaceful

• Catholics are going back to mysticism

  • The church fathers and grace teachings

1:02:54 – Let’s bring it back to Jesus

• Listen to Jesus

  • Love your neighbor

  • Love your enemy

  • Love God

• It’s impossible to follow His teachings

  • But we should try:

    • Working towards good

    • Not working toward violence

    • Not working towards anger or hate

    • Working towards peace

---

Related Episodes

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48. Meeting People Where They Are with Justin Cornett of For All Tennessee

In this episode, we take the podcast in a bit of a different direction. We are anarchists, but we've brought in someone who works within the state to improve citizens’ lives through the legislature. Justin Cornett started For All Tennessee so he can act as a go-between from citizens to their representatives.

For All TN listens to citizens’ needs and works to get them taken care of them by passing bills. This organization is different because its members vote on which issues to pursue, and the company is not controlled by money. For more information, visit For All Tennessee or email info@foralltn.org. Follow Justin on Facebook and Twitter. 

At The Bad Roman Project, we wish the state didn't exist. But the fact is, it does. I (Craig) have been learning that people won’t immediately jump to anarchy from their brainwashed state. We have to meet them where they're at. We have to find ways to make them see that they don't want to be controlled by an authority, especially one who only cares about them as long as they're contributing financially to the government.

Part of the work Justin is doing is spreading knowledge to average citizens about the unfair and unconstitutional laws they are abiding by. He opens their eyes to what the government is doing and encourages them to join him in pushing their local representatives in a different direction. This is a step towards freedom, a step towards taking control of what's ruling their lives and realizing how harmful the government is to their community. 

Timestamps:

2:43 Biden’s “Proclamation” about vaccine mandates

• It was just a press release

• Good ideas don’t require force

  • It’s a bad idea to criminalize bad decision making

• They never pushed the flu shot quite like this 

• “If they would have just let people decide on their own, more people probably would have taken this shot.” -Craig

• So much overreaction at the beginning by people on both sides of the aisle that people are now almost underactive and unwilling to put an experiment in their arms

• Biden and governors (like Texas and Florida) are making “mandates” about the vaccine – either that it can or cannot be required of specific people

  • But in Tennessee, it is a law that companies cannot require their employees to be vaccinated

    • Craig hasn’t had to choose between his livelihood and his life like so many others

    • Justin helped him talk to his politicians about it

8:30 We still live under our government

• Reality is, we live with a governmental system

  • If we want anything to happen, we have to work within that system

  •  most of the followers of the bad Roman are not ready to declare total anarchy, so we have to ease them into it a bit

  • “The world exists as it exists… If you try to operate contrary to the way the world actually works, it's not going to work out well for you.” -Justin

• Sometimes, people think they’re opposed to you

  • Until you take the time to understand them and explain more

    • And you both find they’ve said the same thing you said before, just differently

  • No one will listen to a headstrong bully

  • Jesus used love, hope, and patience to guide people to His path

    • If we don't use those tools, we will not succeed 

• Someone’s gotta work through the state; just not Craig ;)

13:44 For All Tennessee

• Takes policy ideas to the hill

• Members pay $5+/month

  • They get to vote on which issues are focused on

  • Also, people can designate their money for specific issues

• Utilizes different tactics such as pamphlets, door to door information sharing, and ads

• They do not campaign for or endorse certain politicians. They simply inform people about where all the politicians stand on important issues

• No party affiliation; just what's best for Tennessee

• “You don't fix what the government broke with more government. You can't really fix what the parties have broken with more parties, because the problem is inherent in the parties.” -Justin

• America was supposed to be self-governed through Representatives 

  • But right now there are two organizations who tell us what our options are, and we have to choose which of the 2 is less terrible

    • The only way to change that is for citizens to lean on their representatives

• Working to 

  • Find out what the citizens want 

  • Create policies

  • Lobby for representatives to vote for what do people in their district have asked 

    • If they don’t, they’ll lose votes

  • Find out what representatives think about policies and inform citizens

  • Guide people into a different mindset where they

    • Have influence over public policy

    • Don’t blindly follow government

      • They have the gift of free will 

    • Are aware of and ask for what's best for their community

  • Guide people to take a step towards freedom

• Run by this principle: get policy done that empowers people and limits government

28:23 How the founding fathers might feel about how things work now

• Rollin over in their graves

• If they were here, they’d go to war with our government

  • The federal government was never supposed to have as much power as it does

    • States were supposed to have more control

    • The federal budget is significantly higher than all the states’ budgets combined

    • The States created the federal government

      • And should therefore have more power 

    • The federal government does not constitutionally have the authority to pass a law 

      • But they've been doing it anyway for 100 years 

      • Everyone just behaves like the acts they have passed are law

33:04 Hypocrisy

• Saying we have to follow something because it's the law

  • While also dismissing laws that don't make sense

  • Or even disobeying align yourself while demanding that others get punished for it

•  Saying we should love our neighbor

  •  While also delighting in locking him up for nonviolent crimes

    •  Making his education, career, and family life a massive struggle

    •  Keeping him dependent on the state for sustenance

34:58 A new definition of politics

• Politics happens any time people interact with other people

• If you have a society full of garbage people, it is going to fail regardless of what government it has

• If you have a society full of people who truly care about others, the government won't be needed to control them

• We need a combination of 

  • A kind attitude towards each other and

  • A lack of governmental control

• We've got to focus on the goal

• We need to fix our eyes on Jesus, not what's going on in the world around us

  • Our treasure is not here on Earth 

  • But let's make the most out of what we have here

    •  While recognizing that this isn't the end for us

38:00 Working to limit police power

• Qualified immunity

  • Hasn't been voted on within the organization yet

  • They may or may not work on it, depending on the votes

• No-knock Raids

  • Worked to get 123 out of 132 votes to abolish them in TN

  • Written with police chiefs and the governor's office 

  • Tennessee already had a good record and policies in place to prevent no-knocks

    • This was just the final step

  • Police now have to report any excessive force used

  • Deescalation training is now required

40:52 Low-hanging fruit 

• Going for the policies that are already widely agreed upon

  • They are agreed upon by citizens, not necessarily representatives

  • Civil asset forfeiture

    • The government can see that you have assets and simply take them even when you have done nothing wrong

    • Many representatives see this as a necessary income stream for the government

    • Most average citizens have no idea this is a thing

      • So part of the work is to educate them and ask them to join against it

44:17 Effectiveness Analysis

• We check on the issues we worked on

• We got a bill passed on civil asset forfeiture that made the state more financially responsible when proven to be in the wrong

  • But they have a loophole

  • People are not being reimbursed for their legal fees

  • Now, we have another angle to focus on to help people

48:12 “We are nothing more than a revenue source for the government.” -Craig

• How do people not see this?

  • When a lie becomes commonplace, people just accept it

48:48 COVID migration

• People are moving to different states to escape COVID laws

  • Hopefully, those from the most extreme states don’t bring the lies they lived under with them

    • Conservatives are bad, but liberals are worse

    • Californians moving to Texas

  • In one county of TN, restaurants demanded people’s addresses in order to track their travel

• The government wants to divide and conquer us

  • We should be focusing on the similarities between groups

• Both sides want us to get vaccinated right now

  • Liberals get there by mandating what they think is good for us

  • Both are seeking gain and change culture

    • The way they want the culture to change to is different

    • Both prescribe laws for the purpose of culture shift

55:31 Plans for the new year

• Members can vote on what issues we focus on in 2022

  • Join before the deadline and get your vote in 

• If someone comes to us with $100,000 to work on a particular issue in a certain direction, we still need the approval of our members before moving forward

• As far as we know, no one else operates this way

  • If someone knows of an organization that does, please let us know so we can learn from them and be allies

• Currently, we only work in Tennessee but would love to have chapters in other states and then federally

  • Have incorporated for this reason

  • Everybody wants somebody to be doing this work 

Contact For All TN at info@foralltn.org

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47. Home School: 2021 Year End Round Table

For this year’s year-end roundtable (YERT), we have six guests and friends of the podcast, each with a different view on education to have a discussion on homeschooling in 2021.

Our guests are Abby Cleckner, Kerry Baldwin, Jordan, Nathan Moon, and Chris and Karin Polk, most of who grew up attending public schools. A few of the pannel are, or have been, teachers both within and outside of the public school system. A couple of them currently offer training or courses to adults about how to think for themselves, skills they feel they see as lacking in current public curriculums.

In this episode, we ask questions like, are schools are a training ground for compliant citizens who will pull whatever lever they are told without question? Does the system set teachers and students up to struggle?

Most of the panel currently homeschool their children and view it as the only real way to protect their family values and provide an education tailored to their specific childs’ interests.

They also discuss how formal education influences people’s understandings and perspectives on how the world works, in terms of politics and social structures in society. If our public school system was created to make a compliant labor force, with no desire to question the system or learn on their own, then we must encourage our children to pursue their personal interests, to learn how to think and enable them to with the tools to do it themselves.

Control of our children’s education starts at home. Homeschooling might seem like an impossible dream but, especially in the last couple of years, families of every background have found a way, and there are endless resources for innumerable methods to teach the next generation.

Timestamps:

00:49 Announcements for 2022

• New Bad Roman sponsorship program

  • The first 10 people who sponsor the show for 4 episodes will get a 5th episode free 

  • Advertise your podcast, product, or blog

  • Tell us what you want to say: thebadromanpodcast@gmail.com

• New co-host

  • Abby Cleckner!!

    • She’s written for the blog, been on the podcast, gone on other podcasts for the bad Roman, and just been an essential part of the work we're doing

4:08 Guest introductions

• Jordan 

  • Grew up at public school in West Texas

  • Has a teaching certificate in Texas

    •  Left public schools for so many reasons

    •  Now teaches at a university model homeschool group

•  Kerry Baldwin

  • Teacher of the Socratic Method

  • Homeschool Parent

    • Three kids

    • Divorced mom 

    • Works from home

  •  Homeschooled as a kid 

    • Before it was legal in New Mexico

      • “I like to say that my education was born from civil disobedience.”

  • Socratic method

    •  AKA inquiry-based learning

    •  Courses available for middle school on up

      • For both students and teachers leading students through the method

      • Register for summer here

• Karin Polk

  • Grew up in public school

  • Stay-at-home parent

  • Homeschooling all three kids starting 11 years ago

• Chris Polk

  • Grew up in public school

  • Claims homeschooled status for himself now because he’s learning so much with his kids

    • It’s like doing school over again, but actually learning something  

• Nathan Moon

  • Had a good experience in public school

  • Most families at their church homeschooled, so they did too

  • Taught in a public school

    • Only lasted a year

• Abby Cleckner

  • Went to public school

    • K-college

    • Moved a lot

  • Had a terrible experience when she put her kids in

    • Switched to a magnet, but then moved to rural area without one 

  • Lets her older kids decide where to go to school

    • Homeschools the younger ones

    • Older ones have chosen to stay in public

    • “Homeschooling is teaching them to be self-directed and make their own decisions and use their own logic to figure things out. And so, in that vein, I feel like it's not my place to force them into what kind of schooling.”

13:28 Why are people ignorant in 2021?

• Why don't they understand how our governmental system works?

  • Didn't we learn that in public school?

    • They actually cut civics classes out of school in the 90’s

      • But it's not only young people who don't understand

  • Perhaps people are just so focused on their favorite news anchor that they don't remember facts

    • Like that an executive order from the president can't override state law, thanks to the 10th Amendment

  • Homeschool Community has grown dramatically since COVID

  • New truckers come to Chris because they want freedom, but they've never learned to think for themselves

    • They never really learned to comprehend what they're reading or do basic math for themselves

    • If they previously worked for a big corporation, all they know is how to do what they're told 

    • His students get so frustrated when he won't just give them the answer

  • It's the same at school as in corporations

    • Sit down. Shut up. And do (or learn) what I tell you.

    • Prussian model of “Just pull the lever”. You don't have to know why

  • Schools don't care if you're learning

    • You cannot be held back when you fail; you will still graduate to the next level “for social reasons”

      • So many kids wind up graduating from high school with maybe a fifth-grade-level education because they were not required to pass their classes

        • What can they be successful at?

          •  Pulling a lever

    • Teachers are likely to care, but they're held back by the administration

      • That is why so many teachers are also leaving public schools

    • Schools don't communicate with parents

      • There was a kid who had passed a total of 3 classes in all of high school, and his parents didn't find out until the school informed them that he wasn't graduating at the end of his senior year

24:24 Why are teachers leaving public schools?

• From a behavioral standpoint, if you take an underpaid overworked position and pile more work on it, people are going to want to escape that position

  • Teachers do many hours of extra work outside the classroom during the summer and at home during the school year

  • The average secondary school teacher has about 120 students they are solely responsible for teaching in their subject

    •  No support from parents

    •  Lots of red tape from admin

  • That's why teachers are always so excited for summer

  • COVID brought very different expectations to the position

    • Tons of extra work

  • So, we have a teacher shortage

• If a student is willing to take advanced classes, they might get a decent education

• Schools often hire people who don't have a teaching degree as long as they are in school to finish that degree

  • “Almost anyone can be a teacher. All you have to do is just find the Craigslist ad and dust off your transcripts. But that doesn't mean that you're a good teacher.” -Nathan

• “A lot of parents are pulling their kids from public education because they're realizing they're not receiving systematic instruction, they're receiving systematic indoctrination.” -Nathan

  • Teachers are also realizing this and are unwilling to participate

• Teachers almost never quit because they don't like teaching or because of the children

  • It’s the policies they have to follow

• This disaster started in the 1800's when we changed our education system

  • Suddenly, professionals/the state were responsible for teaching our children rather than their parents

  • It contributes to the breakdown of the family

  • Parents don't know how their kids are doing in school

    • Teachers watch the children failing, and are tied down by policies that prevent them from intervening

32:18 The roles of students and teachers

• “When we talk about education, we are talking about what the adults are doing for the kids, but. We're not talking about what the kids are doing in order to learn. And this is, I think, a mistake.” -Kerry

  • Students’ interest is essential

    • Even the greatest teacher cannot teach students who don't care about the subject

• Teachers: architects or gardeners?

  • Architects build a very specific product

    • This is what public schools want teachers to be

  • Gardners feed and tend to their plants, which will not come out looking identical 

    • Provide the environment; it's up to the plants to grow

• Whose responsibility is it to make the school look good?

  • “Administrators and bureaucrats put a ton of pressure on teachers, teachers, in turn, put a ton of pressure on kids and parents, parents put a ton of pressure on kids and kids are carrying the education systems on their backs.” -Kerry

• “Education is learning how to learn so that you can teach yourself whatever it is that you want to teach yourself.” -Kerry 

  • It isn’t learning a bunch of facts

    • It's learning why those facts are important

  • Parents aren't going to know everything, so it's important the kids know how to learn on their own or alongside their parent

41:13 Curriculum

• A curriculum that worked well for one kid is not likely to work well for all of them

  • Don't expect to use the same one for all of your children

  • We cannot recommend a curriculum that will work well for every child

• Many new homeschool parents seek to replicate public school at home

  • Everyone gets burned out

  • The parents feel like failures

  • Breathe and just go with what they're interested in.

    • They will learn naturally

    • “Keep it simple, Stupid.” -Chris 

43:35 How has education influenced what we've seen happening these last couple years?

• Public schools don't teach how to analyze a text

  • People have not been critically reading the articles they consume

    • They don't know how to tell what information is important and how to apply it to their life

• Even a lot of homeschool curriculum is just filling in bubbles with the right information

• Instead of bullet points and boring charts, information should be narrative

  • That's what humans naturally are; that's how we've always learned 

• When kids are learning about their personal interests, they learn a lot more quickly and in-depth than when a tired teacher is trying to reach 30 students who don't want to be there every day

• Kids also need more time to play and learn that way

  • Developmentally, they simply cannot be expected to sit still for 8 hours every day with only two 15-minute breaks

    • Actually, adults shouldn't be expected to do that either!

•  Homeschoolers can go as in-depth on a topic if they want

  •  They’ll learn more than just the public school propaganda:

    • This bad thing happened in history, but America swooped in and saved the day. The end.

• If a student wants to learn more about a topic or keep reading, that's seen as a problem, and they “need to learn to work on their transitions”; to comply with the system better 

  • Kids aren't allowed to enjoy learning, so they quit trying

  • They're rewarded for pulling the lever, not for exploring why the lever is there

  • Learning is not encouraged; compliance is

• MAGA makes sense when you think of the public school history propaganda

  • We all learned that, especially back in the 40s and 50s, America solved all the world's problems and was a prosperous nation

    • “They're too dumb to know they're dumb” -Jordan

  • But now schools have swung away from this teaching

    •  Changed to: America is the worst. White people are the worst. 

  • The only way you'll have control over what your children learn and the values instilled in their brains is to home-school them

    • A lot of people think there's no way they can homeschool their kids

      • They are losing free babysitting

      • There’s the pressure to succeed that comes from government requirements for teachers, schools, and students

      • But the lesson time takes half as long

      • All types of parents have found a way to succeed

    • If you know the Socratic method, you can learn even from the most terrible, one-sided curriculum

      • Because you’ll know how to ask the right questions

• Media represented by talking heads who were taught what to think

• But there are exciting technologies coming

  • Like blockchain

  • We can get ourselves and our kids ahead of the game by learning about it while most students are busy being indoctrinated

1:10:07 Options for homeschooling

• University Model

  •  Kids go into a small school 2 or 3 days a week

  •  The other days, they are at home doing their homework 

• Or at least find a co-op of other parents who can support your journey

• YOU ARE QUALIFIED TO TEACH YOUR CHILD

• There are so many tools available for all different styles of learning

• We don't need the Department of Education

  • They were only established in the 70s

  • Our education system would probably improve if they went under because everyone would be homeschooling 

  • It's actually unconstitutional and should never have existed 

1:14:03 Final Thoughts & Where to Connect with our Guest

• Nathan

  • Homeschooling is possible for your family. You can find a way

    • Even if you don't do it, do take a greater interest in your child's education

    • Take the initiative

  • Theology Writings 

  • Fiction Writing and Poetry 

    • Children can send submissions here, and I’ll post them

• Chris

  •  We should get disgruntled teachers to open little schools

  • Trucking company, Blue Ribbon Logistics

  • Podcast

•  Jordan

  • You can't do it wrong

    • If you're considering changing your child's schooling, you clearly love them and want what's best for them

    • Follow your gut

    • They are your child, given to you because you would know how to care for them

• Kerry

  • Socratic Method Courses

  • Email

• Abby

  • The homeschool community continues to grow exponentially

  • Even people who are fans of the public school system have criticisms

  • COVID regulations have made schools into literal prisons

  • Find me on the Bad Roman podcast!

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Whether you are new to crypto and DeFi or you've already begun your journey around the block...chain, Blockchain Trading Co. provides you with a community of people passionate about digital assets.

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42. Is Political Power Devilish with Mark West

In this episode, Craig speaks with author Mark West about his article, Is Political Power Devilish, and his book, What He Said: Living the Sermon on the Mount Transforming American Culture.

As a self-proclaimed Xvangelical(a term for a former Evangelical who now centers all scripture interpretation on the words and actions of Christ, with a focus on living out His kingdom right now), Mark helps us strip back our political attachment to a nation-state so we may return to Christ’s vision for us, not a politician’s. 

Mark does not want us to deconstruct our faith, but rather renovate it from its complexities so we can refocus on what Jesus said and did. Christ’s challenge for us is not easy, it is hard to love one’s enemy, to turn the other cheek, to not worry about tomorrow, to not outsource our responsibilities as Christians through electing “Christian” leaders to politics, but our call will always be greater than any nation past or to come.

Our King and our Kingdom are not of this world and Mark invites us to rise to this challenge to be the body of Christ in our everyday life, not at a ballot box.

You can connect with Mark and read more of his work at mark4libertas.wordpress.com and purchase his book at markwest-author.com.

TIMESTAMPS:

01:52 What Mark has been up to

• Spiritual pilgrimage, culminating in his book

• God Archy, “that’s me in the corner”

  • Mental health advocacy

• IF YOU NEED HELP, PLEASE REACH OUT

  • National suicide hotline: 800-273-8255

06:13 Covid Anxiety

• Some people are afraid to reacclimate to public life   

08:38 Deconstruction/Renovation of Faith

• Not tearing it all down, taking away the bad, but realigning one’s faith with what Jesus actually said

• Jesus did not go around debating people

• We make it more complicated but Jesus keeps it simple

11:02 Love your enemy is a command, not a suggestion

• Your “enemy” should be the hardest person to love, but if you can love them then you can love everyone between you and your enemy as well 

• Keith Giles, Jesus Untangled

• Red-letter Christain heretic

• Simple to understand, hard to do

• Leave the bad beliefs behind, and renovate the misshapen into something better, that more fully honors God  

 13:59 Renovation of Faith and The Political stance of Christian-Anarchy

• If you want no government what would you have done about Nazi Germany or Slavery?

  • Nazi Germany and Slavery were made possible via a goverment that assumed power/authority it did not have

• As Christian Anarchists, we recuse ourselves of using governments to get others to do something, even if it’s the “right” thing

• Christianity comes before the anarchy

  • Craig: “I’m only an anarchist because I’m a Christain”

17:19 Mark’s Article, Is Political Power Devilish

• “Exhausted and defeated” - we are worn out by our current political system

• Mark’s run for Governor

  • Had been preaching twelve sermon series on Sermon on the Mount

  • Felt Christ calling him away from politics, that they were opposite to what Jesus taught

  • Fell into a deep depression 

23:06 Moving away from politics entangled with faith in Jesus

• Chris Polk

• Looking to the early church for a model of how to interact with the state

• The Temptation of Christ

  • Satan tempted him at the end of his fast when he should be weakest

  • Satan offered to give him the authority over all the kingdoms, implying he has the authority over them making them of the devil, not of God

• Daniel’s prophecy

  • Had an image of all the kingdoms that have existed, and smashes them because Christ’s kingdom is different, it is not of this world

• The political systems of our world have a violence based authority, while Christ’s kingdom is the anthesis of this

• “Divine right of kings” is being applied to our political leaders when we think they will lead us to the Kingdom of Heaven

  • Jesus was asked to be king by force and almost killed for refusing, it’s just not our thing as Christians

32:45 Mark’s book: What He Said: Living the Sermon on the Mount Transforming American Culture

• Why he wrote the book:

  • Felt he received a message while preaching the sermon on the mount a message American Christians really needed to hear

    • What we hear: if we get the right politician or policy or program in place then things will be transformed

      • This gets reduced to solganism and hashtags, “make America Christian again”

    • Jesus said plenty that is good enough and we don’t do it--put the slogans down; he’s calling for a whole life transformation

  • Chapter 8 was the hardest to write

  • Dietrich Bonhoeffer: what the world needs to see is a new monasticism, he saw back in Nazi Germany what we are seeing today in today’s Christianity 

    • Bonhoeffer also wrote on the sermon on the mount

36:50 The Early Church did not seek power

• They actively helped others rather than electing people to do it

38:32 Chapter 8 - A series of Don’ts

• Don’t collect earthly treasures, don’t worry about your life, don’t worry about today, and don’t worry about tomorrow 

• Jesus told us not to worry, and when we worry we get distracted from advancing the Kingdom of Christ

39:32 Don’t collect earthly treasures

• Matthew 6:19 KVJ

  • When we collect earthly treasures we want to get something from them, we are focused on the wrong treasure, Jesus wants to give not get

  • All our stuff will sit here, collect dust, and go bad - nothing here last

  • In Christ, we can find things that will last forever

• Pursue the things you can store in heaven

  • The true treasures are the fruits of the spirit in our life

  • The fallacy of the American dream: work hard and get a bunch of stuff, but people are where we get our rewards

• Mammon - God of material wealth and blessing

  • Can’t have two kings God and Mammon(often translated as money)

43:45 Don’t Worry About Your Life

• Matthew 6:25 KVJ

• Jessica Green - being prepared

• If we are working together we should be able to provide for each other and not worry 

  • We like to make sure we are provided for

• Mental illness and faith

  • Mental illness is irrational, takes away the ability to see tomorrow coming

  • Jesus is telling us to look at the flowers, the birds, and everything else that works without worry

    • The worry get in the way, when we go to the store and take more than we need, providing for ourselves at the expense of our neighbor, we all have less in the long run

  • Live the kingdom life by thinking about the other

48:12 Don’t worry about today

•  Matthew 6:31-33 KVJ

  • “Seek first the kingdom of God and all these things will be provided for you”

• We are called into christ to be a new creature a new creation, all the chasing distracts us and keeps us from what we are supposed to be

• The real issue with Christians in America is we are not living Kingdom lives

  • Blame LBGTQIA community or entertainment or Donald Trump and Joe Biden

  • If Christians in America lived by the sermon on the mount the country would be transformed

50:09 Don’t Worry About Tomorrow 

• Matthew 6:34 KVJ

• “Why worry about tomorrow? Each day has enough trouble of its own”

  • This moment you are in is the most important moment of your life

  • Live in trust that God will keep his promises

51:56 Kindness is Key

• Matthew 5:5 KVJ

  • “The gentle are blessed for they will inherit the earth”

• Inheriting does not mean all the possessions and goodies

• False dichotomy: if I hurt you I will buy you something to make up for it; more stuff makes things better(money, accolades, achievement)

  • All Jesus is calling us to is to be kind

• Humility to not always have the place you think you deserve  

• The only thing we are entitled to in the gospel is to have less than our master did(aka Jesus who they killed)

• Culture of disenchantment among Christians

41. Is the U.S. Constitution a Christian Document? with Mike Gaddy

“We the People..” have you ever stopped to consider who was included in that “we”?  

This week Mike Gaddy returns to discuss the question: Is the Constitution a Christian document? Join us for a trip to 1785 Philadelphia where we look inside “the room where it happened” and uncover the possible motives and supposed religiosity of the 55 white men who devised the system that we, two centuries later, are still trying to untangle our basic Liberties from.

Many Christians on the political right, and even the left, considered the United States Constitution to be a Christian document. Yet, the founders avoided consulting with or even making reference to the teachings of Christ or any Deity, Creator, or Higher Power for that matter, in the formation of the Constitution. When we look at what the founders said and did we are left with a very different image of the motives that may have inspired the document that for too long Christians have been misled to see as divine.

You can connect with Mike at rebelmadman.com. He hosts two radio shows, Addicted to Your Own Destruction, (Fridays at 12 PM EST) Forensic Autopsy of Consitution & its Characters, as well as Addicted to Our Own Destruction (6 PM EST) On Rev radio.

Timestamps:

1:35  Mike’s Episode on Succession (Ep. 24)

2:12 Does the Christian-right view the constitution as God-Breathed?

• It’s important to look at how both sides view the constitution in relation to their Christianity

3:31 What Mike has learned from his studies of the Christian Right and Left

• Jury Duty selection and biases

• We should be led by evidence rather than emotion

5:38 Were all the founders Christain?

• Religious - yes; Christain - not necessarily

• Many came to the US to escape religious persecution

• Monotheism vs. Trinitarianism

• Most popular verses with founders were old testament

  • Leviticus 26 KVJ

  • Deuteronomy 28 KVJ

  • New Test: Galatians 5:1 KVJ

9:59 Why Mike is so passionate about this topic

•  Believing something false is going to affect our decision-making process over and over again

• False narratives don’t bear good fruit

13:10 How did we get to the Constitutional Convention?

• Not everyone came for religious freedom, many came for profits

• After 6 years of articles of confederation, many Federalists had gained power

• John Dickinson - author

• Articles of Confederation would prevent career politicians

17:38 Term Limits

• John Birch Society - against term limits

• People vote on emotion not the Constitution

• Thomas Jefferson - Rotation(term limits) allows the people to benefit from the genius of their community, don’t know it without rotation.

• Articles of Confederation allowed for instant recall - do a bad job get instantly recalled

22:26 Term Limits, Taxes, and the Federalist push for the Amending the Articles of Confederation

•  Unlimited taxes from unlimited sources blocked by Article 134 of Articles of Confederation

• Important question: Did the people who went to Philadelphia for the second constitutional convention go to protect the rights of the people or to destroy them and gain power?

  • Red flag: Secrecy of the Convention

    • Constitutional Convention was made secret for 50 years no one could say anything about what occurred even to constituents

    • Blacked out windows and soundproof attempts

26:24 Did the founders at the Constitutional Convention act like Christians?

• “Thou shall not steal” includes taxes

• Quakers in Philadelphia provided a written proposal to Constitutional Convention asking them to outlaw slavery - given to Tinch Cox (president Quaker foundation) and Benjamin Franklin

  • Was never read to the convention for consideration

  • Antislavery/Abolishing slavery was never discussed

•  When slavery was discussed:

  • Luther Martin - known drunk, longest sitting attorney general in US, not a Christain by any record

    • On the topic of slavery: “the revolution was grounded in defense of the natural god-given rights possessed by all mankind, but this constitution is an insult to that god who views with equal eye the poor African slave and his American slave master.

      • Geroge Mason only one who agreed - calling it a “crime against heaven”

• Gandhi: I like your Christ but I don’t like your Christianity

• Were the founders there as delegates to protect the rights of the people or to protect their financial interests?

• Federalist: Oliver Ellsworth and Robert Livingston “we are not here to discuss moral or religious issues, we are here to discuss commerce”

34:11 Samuel Bryant - The Cloak of Divinity

• Antifederalist

• Federalists will have to “cloak their message in divinity to sell it to the American public”

• The easiest thing is to get people to believe what they want to believe

• Patrick Henry - Federalist used his Christain image to push the constitution, though he was most vocal against it (the invention of fake news) 

• 1 Samuel 8 KVJ - choosing a King other than God(probably a bad idea)

39:57 Daniel Dresback (American University Professor) - “one of the most striking features is the absence of the acknowledgment of a supreme deity…”

• Articles of Confederation and Declaration of Independence included acknowledgments to a supreme being

• Franklin noted lack of prayers in the second constitutional convention vs. first

• Alexander Hamilton referred to it’s lack as avoidance of foreign aid

• 12 of 13 colonies has Christian oaths in their states’ Constitutions; Article 6 Clause 3 Federal Constitution did away with these

• Flip Wilson - Christians and Lions; Christians got a great coach but their team is shaky

53:33 Henry Abbot - North Carolina ratification convention delegate

• Foresaw what Article 6 Clause 3 impact would be

54:59 The Fraud of “We the People”

• The population at the time was about 3 million.

• The “we” excluded: women, non-land-owning white men, and enslaved people(about 700,000 at the time)  

• The “we” was about 65,000-80,000 people were eligible to vote out of the 3 million

 57:00 Have things changed since 1787?

• Constitution created a system

• Voting as states the 55 delegates rejected a Bill of Rights but made provisions for slavery

• The first power they gave congress was unlimited taxation from unlimited sources 

59:19 One Verse from New Testament repeated throughout countries founding

• “Stand fast therefore in the liberty of which Christ has made us free and do not be entangled again with the yolk of bondage”

• Did they do this, did they protect the individual, or did they protect their own interest?

38. Your Rights with Chris Polk & Jacob Daniel

Chris Polk is a Christ follower, podcast host, father, husband and entrepreneur. He owns a trucking company in West Virginia called Blue Ribbon Logistics. He can be found on Facebook, Instagram, and his podcast. Jacob Daniel is a Christian and friend of the show. He is an Austrian Economist and member of the Mises Caucus. He can be found online on Facebook, YouTube, his podcast, and website.

We discuss answers to the questions: What are rights? Where do they come from? Who has rights? Are there rights being claimed that we do not truly have? Is it really a right if we have to violate someone else’s rights to get it? Who is taking our rights away? How do we overcome tyranny and reclaim our rights? 

Timestamps & Starting points:

1:10 Chris’s journey from staunch republican to anarchist

• 2008 financial crisis

  • 1999 NYT article predicting it based on Clinton’s policies

  • Realized it was caused by the government

  • Everyone changed what they valued under Obama

    • No one in government actually has values; they just pretend to get ahead

  • Heard Ron Paul & Tom Woods interviews

  • Made choice not to worship founding fathers & Constitution

  • Went to his friend’s church where they preached about Jesus & anarchism

  • Today, refusing to be swayed by fear and shame

4:55 Dave Ramsey

• Craig’s journey to financial security

• “Dave Ramsey is the gateway drug to liberty.”

  • He causes people to ask questions and think for themselves

• Too bad he’s still a statist

7:41 Jacob’s progression to anarchism

• 2016 Bernie supporter 

• Voted for Hilary under vegan peer pressure  

• Ben Shapiro-esque  

• Libertarian anarchy

10:01 Shameful old Facebook posts

• “If I saw some of the things I said back then now on someone else’s wall, I would be on them in a heartbeat – like a cheetah in the wild.” -Jacob

• Craig actually started writing a spicy comment on one of his own memory posts

12:06 Larkin Rose quote

• “The truth is, one who seeks to achieve freedom by petitioning those in power to give it to him has already failed. Regardless of the response, to beg for the blessing of authority is to accept that the choice is the master’s alone to make, which means that the person already, by definition, is a slave.”

12:29 What are Rights?

• Chris: 

  • “Something that cannot be taken away from me without there being some sort of harm… simply being able to engage in those rights does not bring harm to anyone else.”

• Jacob: 

  • “Something you’re entitled to.”

  • Positive Rights: 

    • Something society “owes” you

    • Cause you to use force against someone to get them

  • Negative Rights: 

    • Needs we have that can be met without aggressing against someone else

20:35 The right to free healthcare

• “How’s the worker gonna get paid if you want every damn thing for free?” -Chris

• The person paying the bill has the authority

  • Why would we want to give the government power over our medical care?

    • People will fight for women to have the choice of abortion without government regulation, but forget to apply that right to other health concerns

• Doctors are no longer trained to treat whole humans; they’re just parts changers

• They must follow the authority’s guidance, even when it makes no sense

  • If they don’t, they’ll be cancelled

  • But those in authority are not even healthcare professionals

    • They just have money

• Why are big corporations and big tobacco bad, but big pharma is ok?

• Citizens of Canada come to US for emergency treatment because getting it there takes too long

  • But we still don’t exactly have a free market

    • Only big pharma is benefitting

    • There’s a lot of red tape

    • Regulations keep needs from being met

30:52 Environmental emissions regulation example

• LA outlawed most trucks being used

• Big companies bought compliant trucks and leased to smaller companies

  • How else could freight be moved?

• And then the Marxists swooped in and said the corporations were evil for their high lease rates

  • Demanded unionization of truckers

  • But it wasn’t the corporations’ fault

    • It was the government’s

• The laws were not really created to save the environment or lower illness

  • They were to help politicians get elected by making them look friendly to unions

• “The more power we give to the state to try to give us these things that we want, that we think we are entitled to, we're giving the state more and more license and power to go and do things that nobody wants to talk about.” - Jacob

40:16 Where do our tights come from?

• Most Americans, regardless of their religion, believe it’s from the state

• “Every man, woman and child on this planet has the same, uh, individual natural rights that you do.” - Chris

  • When people think their rights come from the Constitution, the idea that humans from outside the States have rights is shocking

• Non-Aggression Principle

  • Found in 10 Commandments & Jesus’ 2nd greatest

    • Love other people

  • Imago Dei

    • If people are made in the image of God, then aggressing against them is like aggressing against Him

    • You’re not loving God when you don’t love people

46:51 How to stop tyranny

• People are so quick to follow the rules

  • “These are not rules. These are the actions of tyrants.” -Craig

  • “I am not waiting for the state in any way to do anything for me. My customers are my heroes. My customers are my thin blue line-- my customers and my associates and our drivers. And that's where my prosperity comes from.” -Chris 

• “There is no state solution. There is no political solution left for this. The only solution is for you to stand up.” - Chris

  • “Take me to jail if you have to. But y'all only got so much jail capacity, so you can't get us all.” -Chris

  • You don’t need everyone’s approval

    • You only need enough people to keep you in business

  • If everyone opposes the bully, he has no power

    • We outnumber the government by so many

    • If we all say no and just keep doing what we want, what can they even do?

  • “The Bible doesn’t say, ‘Go get the state to love your neighbor.’” -Jacob

55:25 “The revolution will not be televised”

• The people standing up against the government are not in the news

• Ian Smith 

• Idiocracy -- made in 2006

58:40 Closing thoughts

• You cannot serve two masters… We all know who offered [Jesus] the kingdoms of the world. Satan did. So, you’re going to serve the kingdoms of the world. Are you going to serve the Kingdom of God? -Jacob

• If we want to actually help people, stop sitting around waiting for the state to do it; go do it yourself. -Jacob

• The state isn’t going to take those resources and do what you want them to do with them. They’re going to squander them. They’re going to take that power you gave them and hurt people. -Jacob

37. Think for Yourself with Karen Keener

Karen Keener, free thinker, natural health advocate, owner of The Sovereign Mom, and head of the Army of None (not yet released) can be found on Facebook, Instagram, and emailed at thekarenkeener@gmail.com.

She joins us today to talk about the denominational and political division among American Christians, the validity of most COVID diagnoses, and the blind compliance of the American public.

Timestamps & Starting Points:

1:35 “A church for smart people”

• Growing up at Christian school, kids would fight about which denomination was right

• She longed for a church without so much dogma, who used critical thinking

  • Without fear of being called blasphemous

• Found Church of Religious Science

  • But politics got in there too

  • “politics gets involved in spirituality and then it's not really spiritual anymore” -Karen

5:39 Churches claiming to be the only valid -- or even the original -- group

• But… many denominations started in the US

  • How can they trace their history back to the Early Church?

  • The Early Church was about Jesus, not doctrinal division

• "I wanted to understand how they related to the state and there was no Baptist or church of Christ or Pentecostal, or none of that mentioned in their writings. It was all about Jesus." - Craig

9:28 Trump is equated with Jesus

• "There was this whole fear that you were going to burn in Hell if you ask any questions." - Karen

• It’s grown up to adulthood where people don’t question authority

  • Don’t question Trump

    • He is fighting the evil illuminati

  • They’ll call anyone who uses their own brain demonic

  • Y’all are crazy

14:11 It’s almost like Borderline Personality Disorder

• Anything I agree with is holy

• Anything I disagree with is evil

• Humans are not seen as complex

  • They are either the embodiment of evil or good itself

  • If you point out a flaw or positive, they’ll say “Nobody’s perfect; only Jesus”

• “This is like saying that Jack Black isn't a perfect replica of Beyonce… like they both can sing high notes, but like they're not perfect.     They’re such a far cry from each other, like Trump and perfection is so far away.” -Karen

  • It doesn’t matter if the person they’re following blatantly does evil, it is acceptable to them. If their enemy did that, they would be so upset

• Young people are not growing up

  • Their parents are paying for everything

  • They’re taught not to think or question

  • They have been taught lies about history

  • Changing any of that is terrifying, so they cling to it

20:55 Craig and Karen’s political journeys

• Guiding resources:

  • Sibel Edmonds’ book

  • Eva Bartlett reporting on Syria

  • Dr. Joseph Mercola on medical freedom

  • Larken Rose

•  “I think taking a nap is way more productive than voting.” -Craig

29:46  COVID theatrics

• Karen’s friend’s dad got it

  • Proved to her that it was a real illness

  • Got sent away from the hospital because he “wasn’t bad enough for a ventilator”

  • Died after being on the ventilator for a month

  • Hospital would not offer any other treatment

• Craig medically can’t mask

  • So he had to find other ways to fight it

    • VITAMINS

  • People with masks were the ones getting sick

  • He never got it, even when he spent time with those who did

• Misdiagnosing COVID

  • Bacterial pneumonia and the flu both fit the diagnostic criteria

  • The actual tests were inaccurate

• Deaths

  • Most people die in hospitals

    • If you diagnose everyone who comes into a hospital with COVID, then a lot of deaths will count towards it

• Kerry Baldwin, The Virulence of Moral Panic

• Misdiagnosing the flu

  • 37:15 Doctors are telling people, “The flu doesn’t exist anymore.”

  • Peter Doshi article from 2013

  • Make a big deal of it every year until now

  • They don’t usually test for Influenza

    • What if the symptoms are caused by something else?

      • Another illness

      • Eating poorly/detoxing from holidays

      • Less sun

      • Cold weather

      • Mold

      • Stress

• Refusing to treat people

  • Hospitals incentivized to have serious cases

  • Didn’t offer typical pneumonia treatments to help

    • Waited for patients to be severe enough for ventilators

41:52 What’s the next thing?

• Karen's episode with Pete Quinones

• People are rule-followers, not boat-rockers

• Changing the rules

  • Little kids need to mask now

• Can they mandate a vaccine for work?

  • Anyone can ask, but they cannot require you to answer

• We have our own authority; we don’t have to follow irrational laws

• But how do we know who is on our side now?

  • People are not wearing masks because they’re vaccinated AND because they just don’t want to

• Maybe an alien invasion to unite us under one world government?

• “Not that COVID was fake, but the pandemic was fake.” -Karen

• They’re timing the changes in law so people will feel grateful and willing to listen

  • Babylon Bee's satire article

  • People believe their rights come from the Constitution, not from within themselves

21. Year End Round Table - All Things 2020

In the final episode of 2020, we look at the year in review. From sports and celebrity deaths to Coronavirus and lockdowns, tune in to hear nine Christian Anarchists/Voluntaryist make sense of this year and what we can learn from it, both as Christians and Anarchist, moving into the New Year.

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[please check back for show notes*]

**if you need any questions answered sooner, please send us an email) thank you for your patience!

6. Michael Maharrey - The Constitution as a Starting Point

Craig talks with Michael Maharrey to discuss his article The Trump Administration Wants to Resume Prosecuting Medical Marijuana Users in States Where It’s Legal. Mike serves as the national communications director for the Tenth Amendment Center and founder/host of the GodArchy website and podcast. Mike has spent most of his adult life studying constitutional history, political philosophy, and economics, and this conversation touches on all of those elements!

Starting points for further exploration on topics discussed on the show:

01:00 Trump Medical Marijuan Prosecution & Here

1:39 Congress & Marijuana Prohibition Spending 

6:49 The Tenth amendment - State Power 

7:03 Rule of Construction

7:13 Article 1, Section 8

10:00 Anarchist 

10:16 Voluntaryist

17:01 U.S. President Trump’s evolution in messaging on the economy

25:33 Trump on the Epa

30:40 Thomas Jefferson letter to James Madison on the question of: can the constitution bind next generation?

31:03 Constitution Owners Manual

34:00 Godarchy 

Find all of Mike’s books here!