92. War, Policing & Digital Activism with Jason Bassler

About this Episode

Get ready, as we are joined by Jason Bassler founder of The Free Thought Project and Police the Police for a candid conversation about political corruption, digital activism, and the profound impacts and reach of war. Listen in as Jason shares his transition from libertarian to anarchist, spurred by his experiences during the Occupy Wall Street which also helps catalyze his subsequent dedication to police accountability. He offers an intriguing behind-the-scenes look at the Free Thought Project, its evolution, its unexpected shutdown on major social media platforms in 2012 and its uphill rebuild.

We don't shy away from the hard truths in this episode. We scrutinize the alarming effects of war, corruption, and propaganda on our society. This includes a frank discussion on the startling death toll from the post-9/11 war on terror and the profits made by US contractors. We take a deep look at the Ukrainian War as a potential proxy war, the implications of the military-industrial complex, and the ripple effects of these conflicts across different generations. The power of the internet in how different generations are countering these narratives is a key focus.

Lastly, we expose the uncomfortable realities about the US' militarism, its lack of accountability for war crimes, and the fleeting anti-war stance when candidates ascend to power (and their subsequent escalation of conflicts once they have that power). From Lockheed Martin's sponsorship of a pride parade to the $2300 expat exit fee from a free country, we lay bare the government’s blatant hypocrisy. Jason's reflections on the strength of the internet and the value of criticism as a sign of tough love conclude our conversation on a hopeful note. This episode promises to be a thought-provoking, no-holds-barred exploration into our political landscape and the power of digital activism. Don't miss it!

Jason Bassler:

Jason’s Personal Links

Police the Police Links

Free Thought Project Links

Episode Timestamps:

 2:04 Who is Jason Bassler?

• 10 years as anarchist

• Occupy Wall Street 

• Apolitical growing up

• Notion of “Republicans bad” in Bay Area

• Ron Paul

• Free Thought Project

• Police the Police in 2012

• 2013 Business Partner Matt

• Deplatforming by Facebook and Twitter

11:00 Power of a Platform 

• Contrarian thinking and advertisements

• Chasing a dollar

• Authenticity, consistency, and persistence 

• Longevity of building your own platform

• Bending a knee for a dollar

• Authenticity repeated

• Donald Trump 

20:30 Would society fall into chaos without the police?

• Police The Police (Facebook)

• George Floy, Covid Restriction Enforcements

• Monopoly on legal violence

• Security force in a voluntary society

• Dale Brown – Threat Management Center

• Privatized security in Detroit

• St. Louis Police Office on Bad Roman

• Sheriff from AZ on Bad Roman 

26:29  War as an Export

• Bret Wilkins Common Dreams Article

• Atlantic Council and Facebook Partnerships

• Iraq War 

• Military Spending v.s Money Laundering

• Proxy War in Ukraine

• How much money has been sent to Ukraine?

• White House official admits no way to track spending in Ukraine

• Lost 6 billion dollars

• US Weapons on the dark web

34:37 Exhaustion of Perpetual Wars on the Public Psyche

•  People born post-9/11 have not been in a war

• Has war become normalized? 

• Are younger generations rejecting war?

• Indoctrination of government propaganda from a young age

• Are boomers the most propagandized generation?

• Has the internet taken the potency out of government propaganda?

41:36 Realities of War and Its Perpetrators 

• Modern Genocide: America’s Post-911 War on Terror Killed over 4.5 Million People

• Brown University Original Study

• “Cross-fire between two warring gangs”

• Every country is a gang with a flag…where is there to go?

• Children Suffering from Wasting in Iraq and Afghanistan

• Weaponized uranium and adverse health outcomes in Iraq: a systematic review

• Trump's War Efforts

• Yemen vs. Ukraine in public discourse

• Obama’s War Crimes - “Drone King”

• United States Government acts as a terrorist organization across the globe

• Axios Article: Defense Contractors Generatre 7.5 Trillion 

• Lockheed Martin Pride Parade Float

• Fruit-Flavored Hotdogs

• Costs to become an expat

1:01:00 Connect with Jason

• Free Thought Project Website

• Instagram @Jason.e.Bassler

• X (Twitter) @JasonBassler1

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Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

34. Divine Comedy with Jason Mock and Rodney Norman

Does God have a sense of humor? What is the role of comedy within society? Craig and Jason Mock are joined by comedian Rodney Norman for a fun(sometimes funny) conversation on comedy, politics, and Christianity. In this episode we are reminded of the importance and the power of joy and laughter. God wants us to be happy, to love one another and be joyous, but politics and fear can get in the way. Rodney helps us remember to laugh and to take life less seriously through comedy and a never ending curiosity. 

TIMESTAMPS AND STARTING POINTS:

00:22 Episode Intro

• Rodney Norman Video - A Sunday Sermon

02:20 Jason’s go to comics

• Mitch Headberg, Jim Gaffagan, Michael Junior

02:53 Rodney’s (fake) Background

• Member of Q

3:36 Rodney’s Real Background

• 20 years in comedy

• Alcoholic grandfather acts

• Philosophy

• Role of Comedian

• Nietzsche is big inspiration

5:57 Inspiration behind Sunday Sermon Video

• State of the world, battles of who is a “real christian”

• All comes down to treating others with love and respect - if we could do this, governments become unnecessary 

• Kill the idiots to stop idiots?

• Gospel isn’t about being right it’s about being nice and loving one another as ourselves

 8:38 Message of Jesus and how government blocks us from attaining the truth of the message

• It’s in our best interest to live in peace with one another

• How much power do you want to give anyone over your life?

• When you have a final authority, they’re the only authority

10:54 Why having more Christians in office won’t make things better

• Christians are called to the fringes of society the the centers of power

12:09 How Rodney uses comedy to spread the message of loving your neighbor

• Memory and emotional connections

• Comedy vs. fear mongering

• Censorship, manipulation, and control 

16:52 Untangling from the american media-political machine

• Faith in God vs. fear of finite political leaders

• Christ and stoicism

• Straw-God, we have watered down and oversimplified who God is and made him into an impossible version

22:22 Politics or WWE - which is more real?

25:22 Why the rise in comedians challenging the system, and how does it affect how Rodney sees the future or social media(censorship, maintaining audience, free speech ect.)

• Comedian is supposed to mock the things in the system to beat the system

• When social media creates taboo, it give the comedian more material

• Allegory and similes 

• Some are trying to be the smart guy vs. a comedian

• Lenny Bruce and George Carlin

• If your playing safe you're not getting anywhere

32:22 Social media and life

• Enjoy our lives vs. let others control it

33:25 Founders of America and what they fought for

• 3% tax

• Patrick Henry, George Mason\

• Oath of to protect Constitution to protect from “enemies foreign and domestic”

 36:21 Jesus was a snark

• Laughter as medicine

39:50 Comedy as medicine

• Bad Gigs Bad Bosses and Dealing with Life

45:17 Mitch Hedberg

• Jokes

• Working with him

48:43 Rodney’s Plugs

• Rodneynorman.com

• Youtube Channel

33. Politics & Religion Roundtable with Two Christian Anarchist & Two Atheist

What does Christianity look like to a non-Christian? How does the secular world view Christian involvement in politics? Craig and Abby Cleckner(well know Bad Roman Christian-Anarchist) sit down with Nick and Josh(self-proclaimed atheist, who come with a mix of libertarian and socialists political views) to discuss faith, the state, and the mixed messages they see from Christians when these two worlds collide. In a true demonstration of how to have a civil conversation, we invite you to join us, from whatever political or faith background you may hail from, to keep asking questions and having hard conversations, especially with those you may assume you disagree with. Maybe God gave us atheists so we never stop asking questions in a pursuit to follow Christ.

Timestamps and Starting Points:

00:22 Episode Intro - What does christianity look like from a non Christian perspective? 

01:28 Josh’s Background

•  Atheist

•  Studies Mathematics at graduate level, undergrad in Physics 

• Libertarian/socialist political views

2:06 Nick’s Background

•  Atheist

• Socialist(technically)

• Non-religious background

3:48 Fundamental opposition to Christianity itself or how Christians behave vs. what they claim to believe?

• Josh’s background with Christianity and religion

  • Science and religion

  • Difference of geography

  • Christian believers and Islamic believers devoutness is the same

  • Poison of religious beliefs in politics

  • “Going to hell for voting for a democrat”

• Nick’s experience with religion

  • Never brought up with the Bible, has not read the entire things

  • Christians seem to not care about Bible in way they act

  • Told he was going to hell the one time he went to church

  • Fear based religion contradicts with idea of “loving God”

13:27 In John 3:6 Jesus says “if you do not remain in me you are like a branch that is withered, such branches are picked up thrown into the fire and burned” - is that not aggressive from a pacifist stance?

• Diversity in Christian Belief, we read the Bible with baggage

• Bible uses hyperbole

• Jesus never said to subscribe to certain beliefs, but to follow him and how he treats people. If you try to rule over them you will experience being “cast out like a branch”

16:55  Abby and Craig’s stance on scientific knowledge, how does it affect your views? 

• Craig keeps it simple, follow Christ is the best he can do

• Abby - the bible is not a scientific document, but science can have religious elements.

  • As anarchist, money for science comes from government which is a contention

21:18 How has Josh’s understanding of science discount the existence of God, why couldn't he be the one who generated the science? 

•  No physical/natural evidence for God

• Perfectly ok imagining God as the master mathematician

• Cannot accept monotheistic view of something that can be a part of the natural world, but also not be

24:02  Mythology & Religion

• Means to explain the unknown(pre-science and pre/within religion)

• Search for simple pleasant answer

28:13 Science is always pitted against religion, but are the two really opposed?

• People have different levels of need for certainty

• It is important to keep asking questions on both sides 

• Religion ask us to follow faith, feelings/belief, to be accepted, while science requires replicable evidence before it is accepted as knowledge 

33:57 Christians and Government 

• Josh - very hypocritical, evangelical shouting

• Nick - sickened on every level by the hypocrisy and lack of empathy for fellow man, amplified even more in evangelical movements

• Praying for votes?

• Equating Trump as chosen by God and America as doomed by his defeat

• The Rapture

39:18 Fear based gospel & the evangelical love for Trump

• Franklin Graham

• Early church and the state

• What does God care about? 

• Romans 13 

41:28 If Christians were not being hypocritical how would they act in the political realm?

• Josh- Government would tend toward a secular system if beliefs were “checked at door” and there would be no issue. The problem begins when a narrow view from the Bible is imposed on laws today.

• Nick - when Christians get into gov’t it’s their rights above all others, which seems to be in bad faith, when rhetoric of the evangelical base seems hate filled.

• Where were the evangelicals speaking out against kids in cages?

44:57 Christians need to understand the Republican party is not pro-life or Liberty

• Why do they care more about fetuses than people who are already alive?

• Never ending wars? 

47:17 Donald Trump is more akin to the antiChrist

• Trump “I never had a reason to ask for forgiveness”

• Is he what Christians actually stand for vs. what they proclaim to stand for?

53:11 People raised in the mindset of all powerful God, adopt a very top-down authoritarian worldview, does this prime these future voters to fall for someone like Trump?

• Mass incarceration, uncountable amount of laws, need for authority

• Theocracy is equally unsettling  

• Avoiding extreme positions, forgetting the nuances - math and life

• Thought crime

• Authoritarian political candidates and authoritarian view of religion

58:10 Is there Hell?

• Universalist Ideal

• Hell is an experience we have in life not eternal torment

• Jewish Mysticism - Kabbalah and Hell

• Worshiping the Bible vs. Jesus

1:01:46 Is the Bible the word of God or translation from others?

• The bible is a translation and collection of stories written by multiple people

• Just follow Jesus

• We are not going to full understand it in today's terms because of its origin

1:03:15  Dangers of having multiple interpretations of the BIble - is this the reason why it needs to be out of politics and why we need some level of secular governance?

• “The evangelical vote”

• Josh - don’t we need government to do some level of things

  • Markets can be forms/sources of authoritarianism?

    • Free market - Libertarian right, eco-libertarian, anarcho-capitalist

      • Monopolies that suppress rights of people

  • Abby - not possible without gov’t support to get Barons of industry, we don’t have true competition in the market because of regulations stopping it

1:07:15 The freer the market the freer the people?

• Josh - market is a tool, in some circles the market becomes the government

  • Things like climate change or harmful products require some kind of oversight to remove dangerous things from being freely traded

• Clear Patterson - geochemist, discovered age of earth and that lead content in water/atmosphere was toxic

• Are oil companies the market? No, because it is controlled by the government, not a free market.

 1:11:05 What can Christians do differently to make non-christians be non-resentful towards Christains? 

• Nick - Christianity is too far gone? 

• Religion vs. Christianity 

• Why Craig is not a big fan or religion anymore 

• Josh - ignoring science in facts is where he loses them, if in any sort of public entity that has to be checked at the door 

• Morality can not be legislated

11:16:16 Outsourcing morality to the state, Is the state evil?

• Nick - tries to be cautious of notions of good vs. evil to avoid black and white dichotomy.

  • Bigger issue is our system is broken on almost every level

  • We all have our individual ideas but putting them into action is what's difficult

  • Is there a system now that truly benefits everyone?

•  Can you change the mafia from the inside?

•  Josh - saying all government does is evil ignores success of government, it is a tool that can be used both for “evil” and “good”; government meaning a collection of people who have come together to navigate something

• Abby - initiating violence is never permissible

1:21:23 Violence by government - what do we define as violence? 

• Josh - harming human beings is violence or but being taxed?

• Craig - majority of taxes go to military to kill people we will never meet in our lives

• Voluntary Taxation Systems - base taxes then option to choose where your tax portion goes

1:24:18 Majority of Christians celebrate war

• Blind patriotism - weird sense of freedom

• Care more about soldiers who have died than those who come back injured

1:29:57 American exceptionalism & Christianity

• God created everybody

• Being a living God means he doesn’t control anything

• Can’t pray cancer away with enough faith

• Story of three boats

1:33:21 Prosperity Gospel - televangelist - the people who exploit people’s faith and profit

1:36:14 Be a Cheerful giver - Doctrines and Children

• Science must exist in free system

• How can a Christian grow in their faith without questioning what is going on? 

 1:39:39 Josh’s Plug’s

• Articles at universe today Josh Campbell

• Journey to the Stars

28. The American Church’s Political Obsession with Scott Arnold

Many Christians in the United States are outspoken about their desires for Christian men and women to obtain political power and influence. The stance is that religious freedoms need to be protected, but is forcing morality on the people through legislation an effective way to spread the gospel?  Could Christians be doing more harm than good in their efforts?

Scott Arnold is the author of the article Winning the Battle, But Losing the War: The American Church’s Political Obsession.  In this episode, Craig talks with Scott about his transition from a world of conservative, Christian, and redline Republican upbringing into one of Christain Anarchy. They explore how the gospel message can be destroyed or damaged by using politics to force a Christian agenda. Scott also explains his involvement with Steiger International, whose mission is to impact the global youth culture and make the gospel relevant. This is a thought-provoking episode for any Christian who has been of the mindset that Christians need to use politics to further their agenda or force their morality on others. 

Timestamps and starting points:

1:27 Scott’s Background

• Grew up in the conservative Christian republican culture 

• majored in pastoral ministries 

• currently lives in northeast Georgia 

4:04 How Scott found The Bad Roman

• George Floyd and defund the police sparked interest in politics 

• began to research anarchy 

• found The Bad Roman through Christian podcast search 

8:04 Learning about anarchy 

• David Pierce, founder of Steiger International 

• Steiger started in Amsterdam and focused on the anarcho punk scene

• Polish Woodstock

11:35 Discussing Scott’s article: Winning the Battle, but Losing the War: The American Church’s Political Obsession

• Christians equate increased political power with increased influence

• When bringing the gospel into the political realm pieces are lost 

• Abortion and the messy art of law making

• using politics to force Christian values on others

• using the government to control morals 

• outsource morality to the state

• the state is not, and cannot be, Christian

• Myth of Christain Nation

26:25 What is the endgame in winning this war?

• Best case: Christian religious freedom and comfortability 

• worst case: suppression of all other philosophies 

• is it really religious freedom Christians are fighting for?

• prayer in school 

43:05 Polish Woodstock

• The largest outdoor music festival in Europe 

• Steiger’s outreach 

• Bands: Unrest and No Longer Music

Scott’s Plugs:

• Steiger.org 

• Unrest

• No Longer Music

• Provoke and Inspire podcast

• Scott’s Blog

• Scott’s Article on The Bad Roman Blog

23. Scott Horton - The United States Empire - Genocide in Yemen and Beyond

In this episode, Craig digs deep with Scott Horton about the US government’s direct involvement with the war of genocide occurring in Yemen and the general stirring of the pot by the US in the Middle East. In addition to being the editorial director at antiwar.com, Scott, a self-proclaimed Ron Paul libertarian, is also the founder of The Libertarian Institute and author of the book, Fool’s Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan. Scott shares his insights regarding the culture war aspect in partisan politics and how every president since George H. W. Bush has been the same product with a different brand name. 

Is the war in Yemen designed to create famine? And if so, how did we get there, why, and what should a Christian’s response be to their government’s involvement in such heinous atrocities? 

Timestamps for further exploration: 

1:22 Scott Horton’s background 

• Ron Paul 

• antiwar.com 

• The Libertarian Institute 

• Fool’s Errand 

• Benje Graves 

6:20 The Culture War Aspect 

• Importance of Ron Paul 

• Micheal Moore and Jane Fonda - stereotypes of being antiwar  

• Conservatives, Libertarians, and patriots 

• abandoning the world empire 

11:45 Craig’s transition, beginning in 2000 

• single-issue voter 

• 9/11 full-fledge neocon 

• 2016 & Trumpism 

• 3rd party options 

13:00 Bill Clinton’s role in the hate for the US found in the Middle East 

• Are we required to defend Clinton because of patriotism? 

• Bush’s blue blood 

• Carole Quigly 

23:00 Trump’s relationship with Wall Street 

25:45 Exploring the problems US involvement causes  in the Middle East 

• the effect of sanctions 

27:30 What would it take for a libertarian to become president?

32:20 Biden: Zionist agent of a foreign power 

• Ayatollah 

• Iran Nuclear Deal 

• Beijing 

• Milton Friedman 

• Mao Zedong 

36:50 Yemen: Why are we there? 

• the effects of US involvement 

Do people have to decide where their priorities lie? God? Or the state? 

Additional links:

The Great Ron Paul, Interview Transcripts 

21. Year End Round Table - All Things 2020

In the final episode of 2020, we look at the year in review. From sports and celebrity deaths to Coronavirus and lockdowns, tune in to hear nine Christian Anarchists/Voluntaryist make sense of this year and what we can learn from it, both as Christians and Anarchist, moving into the New Year.

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**if you need any questions answered sooner, please send us an email) thank you for your patience!