75. Finding Common Ground Between Christian and Secular Anarchists with Alan Mosley

About this Episode

Craig is joined by Alan Mosley, the host of “It’s Too Late with Alan Mosley”, historian and libertarian writer, for a friendly discussion about what Alan, an atheist and anarchist, has in common with Christian anarchists. They work through the anarchist catchphrase, “No rulers, no masters, no gods”, exploring its meaning and conclude that Christian and secular anarchists can, and indeed should, be allies in liberty. 

Alan could school some Christians in the teachings of Jesus, especially concerning holding an anti-war stance, the application of the non-aggression principle and disdain for institutional structures. The way Alan sees it, the church has been conquered by the state. Churches fly the American flag and teach the Christian voting block to hate their neighbors and enemies, in direct contrast to the teachings of Jesus. The Bible is full of revolutionary thoughts that, if applied, should transform societies just as they have in the past. 

Craig and Alan discuss everything from dropping bombs to end WWII, support for troops and how to improve their psychological well-being, judging the morality of historical characters from past eras, and things that make the church unappealing to unbelievers. Yet, they continuously come back to the need to speak the truth about all of these things courageously. 

Alan Mosley:

YouTube: It’s Too Late with Alan Mosley

Facebook: It’s Too Late with Alan Mosley

Twitter: It’s Too Late with Alan Mosley

Apple Podcast: It’s Too Late with Alan Mosley

Article: Ike and Leahy Were Right: The Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki Were Wrong

Episode Timestamps:

1:38 – Who is Alan Mosley?

• Podcast host

• Jazz musician

• Historian

• Writer

3:22 – What common grounds do atheists and Christian anarchists have?

• Anti-war

• Not interested in playing politics with war

• WWII and the atomic bomb

• Christian anarchists and libertarians are good on this topic

• The early church were pacifists and anti-war

• Christians should not defend war

• Christians should opt out until the government receivess no support for war

• We need to raise children on principles of non-aggression so they don’t join the military

• These need to be spoken of rather than ignored

• Police officers are trained in an us-versus-them mentality

• Churches teach this way too

• That was not in the teachings of Christ

• Supporting the troops is talking about the pressures that face them when they come home

• High suicide rates

• Participating in drone bombing pre-schools

• Improving their psychological well-being

• Stopping children from entering the recruiting offices

• Just following orders is not a good excuse

• It enables the bad ideas of angry rich men in DC to happen

25:27 - The state has conquered churches

• That’s what the American flag on the stage means

• The flag is a rival of Christ

• The state manipulates people through the state

• Turning you against your neighbor and enemy

• Making people afraid of the other team

• Creating a voting block

• Christians should be suspicious of the state; it killed Jesus

30:14 – Comparing morality through the ages

• It’s easy to look back and assume moral superiority over the founding fathers over their non-politically correct actions

• If you look at the state of the world now compared to earlier times, scripture was full of revolutionary ideas

• Live by the sword, die by the sword

• Might makes right was the ethos of humanities history

• The Bible is full of transformational thoughts

• Christian history is full of people giving their lives to defend their faith

• But these days, people won’t talk about their beliefs in case they are ostracized

34:55 – What makes the church unattractive to unbelievers?

• Not representing Jesus correctly

• Endorsing war and the state

• Not helping the poor and widows

• Unequivocal support for Israel’s war atrocities makes the church unappealing

• Warmongers in Israel don’t care about you even though your taxes pay their way

42:15 – The roots of liberty

• Anarchy is the root of liberty

• Christ made everyone with liberty

• Can anarchists serve Christ?

• More atheists are statists

• Alan says no enforced rulers, no enforced masters, no enforced gods

• True Christians are not for theocratic fascists

• Adding enforced to the catchphrase makes more sense

• Bible-thumping church-goers are insufferable

• Christian anarchists and secular anarchists should be allies in liberty

• Jesus was the OG anarchist

• Be charitable in attempting to understand your opponent’s worldview

• It helps build a community

• We should not be forced into relationships that we do not want to be a part of either

• Pick your battles

• Find the like-minded remnant

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70. Pawns of the Military-Industrial Complex with Jamie Cain

About this Episode

Jamie Cain, host of the Liberty Uninterrupted podcast, joins Craig to discuss the military-industrial complex as someone who lived as its pawn. Despite his father’s warning that he would not be fighting for freedom but rather for lobbyists and bankers, at 17 years old, liberty-loving Jamie joined the military. A few years later, Jamie left the military out of his love of liberty, having learned that war is a racket. Since then, he has had some success talking young people out of joining the military by exploring their reasoning for doing so and turning their patriotic logic on its head. Other times, shocking young people by being brutally honest is the only way, but Jamie is not scared of awkward conversations. 

With Craig equally likely to blow up comfortable public narratives, these two could write the book on conversations guaranteed to ruin Thanksgiving dinner! In this episode, they share their views on the military-industrial complex, its propaganda, recruiting and indoctrination techniques. The Military-Industrial Complex is the murdering wing of the state. It indoctrinates and enslaves young Americans as pawns in wars for the financial gain of special interest groups and politicians. 

Craig and Jamie envision a world where America’s competitors act the way America has, policing the world in the name of democracy, bombing critical infrastructure and setting up occupying forces and military bases. Of course, if anyone tried it, Americans would be rightfully angry. With military recruitment figures at crisis levels, maybe after 20 years of illegal wars it is time to bring the troops home.

Connect with Jamie:

Website

• Instagram

• Twitter

• Facebook

• Practical Christology

• TikTok

Liberty Uninterrupted podcast on:

• Apple

• Spotify

• YouTube

Episode Timestamps:

2:23 – Who is Jamie Cain?

• Podcast host at Liberty Uninterrupted 

• Voluntaryist with a libertarian podcast

• Joined the military at 17 years old

• War is a Racket – Major General Smedley Butler

• Dad’s advice at the start of his military career:

  • Remember that you are not fighting for freedom

• Wanted to join the army since he was seven years old

• Rich people all over the world send the poor to fight their wars

  • After getting rich from taxes

  • Their children do not join the military

9:15 – Why shouldn’t people join the military?

• The praise that military men receive helps keep people signing up

• Financial benefits help too

• More veterans have committed suicide than soldiers died in Afghanistan

• Military men believe they are doing the right thing

• Shaming soldiers is not going to change their mind

  • They don’t sign up to fight proxy wars

    • Or to support the Military-Industrial Complex

    • Or to be used as war game pawns

• Shame the Military-Industrial Complex, not the people involved

  • They don’t get to choose the jobs they do

    • End up in military prison if they refuse a job

• Soldiers sign a contract to become the state’s property

  • Even state military guards are misused

• During covid, citizen’s liberties were restricted but no help came from the military

• After six years, Jamie realized he had been lied to

  • Clung to protecting his buddies

• Jamie was woken up by Ron Paul in 2012 Presidential Election speeches

  • Said invading Iraq and Afghanistan was wrong

  • Talked about why the Middle East hated Americans

  • Read The Revolution: A Manifesto – Ron Paul

• Ron Paul’s “Giuliani Moment”

• We should write a book on how to ruin Thanksgiving dinner

• The United States Government has killed a holocaust worth of people

• The Middle East are angry because we are occupying their land

  • Children dying

    • Bombing hospitals

    • Bombing water supplies

    • Bombing weddings

  • Imposing sanctions

• We are not a “Christian Nation.”

  • Anarchism is what Jesus would do

• What would happen if other nations treated Americans the way we treat the Middle East?

  • We would not remain peaceful

• The US made Al-Qaeda recruitment easy through:

  • Drone strikes

  • Dropping bombs

  • Killing families

19:54 – Everyone has a man crush on Ron Paul

• Christians don’t vote

• Even Ron Paul, who:

  • Used the platform honorably

  • Woke many people up

  • Influenced culture

  • Used the system against itself

• If Ron Paul couldn’t change the system, no one can

• Anarchists don’t vote

• The state and military are backed by Satan

• Power corrupts even the best of intentions

  • Be it political or military

• Jamie’s dad’s speech annoyed him

  • But it helped him to understand Ron Paul’s words

  • Left him open to the truth

38:30 - Should we pull the troops back and simply defend the US?

• No one is going to come and kill Americans

  • There are 400 million guns in the US

• Taking guns from everyone does not make sense

  • More money and power will go to the state

  • Gun control is a means of controlling people

• Other countries have no interest in attacking the US

  • There is no advantage to doing so

    • Scott Horton and anitwar.com

• We can’t put military bases across the world without upsetting some people

  • There is no such thing as peacekeeping soldiers

  • They appear as an occupying force

• Our government is our biggest threat

  • China isn’t taking half my pay

  • China is not taking our guns away

  • China is not killing my neighbour for smoking weed

• Those who don’t vote have the right to complain about who is in power

  • Voters give power to the system through participation

  • They love it when their side is in control but not when the opposition has power

• Murray Rothbard – For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto

48:55 – Talking young people out of joining the military

• Jamie meets a lot of young people

  • They ask him for advice regarding joining the military

  • He asks them, “Why do you want to join the military?”

    • Establishes their reasoning

  • Often they say it because they feel they should

    • This is due to propaganda

  • Follow-up questions revolve around their answers

    • If they say they feel that they should, he asks “Do you come from a patriotic family?” and “What’s so patriotic about joining the military?”

  • Maybe it is more patriotic to stay home and build communities and families

    • Use their own reasoning and apply it to them not joining up

  • “What’s so exciting about getting your leg blown off for oil?”

  • Blow up their narrative

  • Every war since WWII that the US has been involved in is illegal under the constitution

  • Who wants to kill people they don’t even know?

54:58 – Do the police help?

• They didn’t prevent the slaughter of children in Uvalde

• The Supreme Court says they have no duty to protect anyone

• In an anarchist society, there is no monopoly on protection services

• Covid proved that police exist to protect the state

  • And politicians

• Libertarian views might not be socially appropriate

  • But we should open our mouths anyway

  • Be honest

• The military treats individuals like trash

  • Pawns in wars

  • No life skills outside the military

    • People get stuck

1:00:19 – We won’t all agree

• If you ask Craig a question, you will get his honest answer

• People do not all agree

  • If a voluntary society came tomorrow, people would still argue philosophy

  • Life is not black and white – Craig

  • There’s room for nuance – Jamie

• The military-industrial complex is the murdering wing of the state

  • It’s using Americans to build an agenda

• The Army military recruitment is down tremendously

  • Go woke, go broke

  • 20 years of war might have woken people up

  • The military has a serious recruiting problem – Congress must fix it

  • If numbers are down, will something new happen to make people patriotic?

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53. Love at the Border with David Hathaway

About this episode

David Hathaway is sheriff in a county of Arizona that borders Mexico. He does not believe the government is the way to solve our problems, but he's in office for now so no tyrannical person will be. He's doing what he can to protect everyone in his large family as well as his ranch and personal freedom. He has refused his governor’s offer of troops to patrol his portion of the border. He works to show everyone in and near his county God's love.

His consistent experience with the church and other freedom-lovers spewing wild hate when it comes to the wall led him to write a book on immigration and several articles for Lew Rockwell and the Libertarian Institute.

Jesus instructed us to love our neighbor and our enemy. So regardless of how you view them, it makes no sense to attack people for crossing a man-made line in the sand. But a lot of Christians and anarchists who stand on principle for many other issues completely change their tune when it comes to the wall and Mexico.

Many of us are hoping to someday be a part of a voluntary society. We often ask: would a sheriff be a part of that? David shares his thoughts. Also, we all know the mainstream media hides the truth from us. But they are pretending so hard that COVID is terrible, they’re completely ignoring the fact that suicide and overdoses killed more people during the lockdown than this “epidemic” did directly. This is tragic and affecting so many families, but people hide in the shadows, not realizing they are, unfortunately, the norm.

Episode Timestamps:

3:36 Illogical inconsistencies

• Anarchists and the border

• Some Austrian economists

  • In favor of national borders

    • While we’re in the nation-state phase

• Tax-funded border enforcers

• Scott Horton agrees

  • We shouldn't have tax funded, coercive structures in any parts of our life, if we want to have a voluntary system

• Will Grigg

  • Wrote a blurb for David’s book

  • Passed away

  • 100% principled Christian anarchist

    • Was against the state-funded border

5:48 Arizona citizens’ response to what David is doing on the border

• The biggest pushback is from conservative churches

  • They love to work with him on other issues

  • Across the country, Christians have decided we must do whatever it takes to keep these people out

    • Send troops

    • Knock heads

    • Shoot em

    • Lock em up

    • Take away their property

  • Maybe because they love Trump so much?

    • He is like their messiah

    • They associate this issue with him

• 25 years ago, Raegan had the opposite stance

  • “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!” - Raegan

  • Because walls and tanks don’t promote free enterprise

• Now, we even do southbound inspections

  • To make sure you’re not trying to flee the US

• People talk about Jesus and love one minute

  • The next minute, they’re angry and violent towards people crossing our border to find a better life

    • They can’t see the conflict there, somehow

  • But Jesus said love your neighbor and your enemy

    • That’s everybody!

9:51 Scriptural support

• Sermon on the Mount

  • Love your enemies

• Good Samaritan

  • Culturally and ethnically different people are still neighbors

• Jesus’ position is so clear

  • None of the conservatives who oppose David’s stance will discuss it

    • They just get angry

12:40 War

• We cannot serve 2 masters

• They take Romans 13 and say

  • It would be wrong for me to throw a bomb at someone

    • But if the government does it, it’s okay

      • They were instituted by God

  • They’ll shut up if you ask them if they think the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan was of God

    • Or if Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were ordained 

  • Rom 13 refers to true authority

13:48 Radical beliefs

• Jesus and the early church were radical 

  • We need to all go back to being radical

  • “It’s a radical thought to take His Word seriously.” - Craig

•  Tiberius

  • Proclaimed Rome to be a Christian nation

    • Before he did that, the army would do pagan rituals before battle

    • After, they continued to do rituals, but claimed to be praying to Jesus Christ

      • So everything the military did seemed legitimate to the Christians

• But for 3 centuries, the church did not follow the state

  • They wouldn't even allow anyone who was associated with the state to attend their gatherings

  • Then they got involved with Constantine because he offered some protection from the endless persecution they were facing

• Polycarp

  • Was taught to honor the government as long as they are doing us no harm

17:37 Opting out

• “The reason we pay taxes is not because it's legitimate, what the government's doing. It's just to live peaceably with all men.” - David

  • It's like turning the other cheek

  • The government is coercing us into giving them a lot of our income

    • So we just peacefully do what they ask

• But we can peacefully protest in other ways

• We can homeschool

• Render unto Caesar

  • But what is Caesar's?

  • Nietzsche says that the government owns nothing 

    • Everything the government owns is stolen

      • Which makes it not legitimately theirs

      • They don’t have a rightful claim to anything because they got it through coercion

  • So we pay taxes to protect those with weak faith from thinking we’re hostile

    • We want to stay friends with people who believe in taxes

    • What would Jesus do?

      • Ask them questions

    • What do we do when people disagree with us about something important?

      • Ask them questions 

      • Get their head spinning

      • Make them actually think through what they’re defending

      • That’s how we change what’s going on

20:57 Foreigners

• Red herring

  • Keeps people from noticing our country’s problems

  • “They don't want you to complain about the actual tyranny and the freedom they're taking away from you and your own country.” - David

• In wartime, we’re “allowed to” hate people from our enemy country – even if they’re US citizens

  • Past: Vietnamese, Korean, Japanese, German…

    • Germans hated Polish

  • Now:  Syrian, Afghan, Iraqi, Iranian, Russian…

  • We complain about them

    • Call them barbarians

      • This is always been a tactic

      • The Romans declared the Germans to be barbarian, and people still believe that myth to this day

      • Then, we won’t notice or complain about our own barbaric government

    • But we're the ones bombing their weddings and children

25:36 The governors on the border

• Both Ducey (AZ) and Abbott (TX) are trying to replicate Trump’s formula

• They assumed all the sheriffs on the border would gladly participate

• Posse Comitatus

  • The military cannot function as police within the US

  • They can support the police, if invited

• David told them no. 

  • This is a negative image of us at the border

  • It hurts our shopping districts 

  • It hurts tourism from bigger cities like Tucson and Phoenix

  • They wanted to bring not only razor wire

    • But troops with machine guns

  • Feels like East Berlin

• 2 of 4 Arizona border sheriffs invited them

  • Good political move to get re-elected

• The governors asked the lower 48 to please send officers and military to help guard

  • David is saying no to that too

  • Those people can’t function in a different state without being deputized by a local sheriff

  • Outsiders do not know the terrain or local people; who’s dangerous or not; everyone will have on their own, different uniforms; different radio frequencies

    • It’s not a safe situation

    • Could end up with friendly fire

• Who knows how long David will be able to resist the big guys as a little local sheriff?

28:52 What does a wall do?

• Raegan told Gorbachev it

  • Is a symbol of totalitarianism

  • Prevents free markets

• Lots of feds and the biggest border patrol station in his county

• The biggest port of entry in Arizona

• Quiet, low-crime area

  • Not because of the wall and patrols

• But maybe the governors think they’ll run for president, and people will like how they strengthened the border

30:56 David’s political campaign

• Wanted a campaign slogan about the golden rule/Good Samaritan in 3 words

  • “A Helpful Neighbor”

  • In English and Spanish

    • To be welcoming to everyone on either side of the border

• Didn’t interview about non-existent crises to get elected through fear

  • Didn’t promise to control anyone

• Simply focused on helping people

• Won by a landslide

  • Had 4x the number of votes of the runner up

• People were clearly glad to hear something so uplifting

33:10 News

• Not from the evening news

  • Too much anger and division and fear

• Reputable podcasts!

  • Scott Horton

  • Peter Schiff

  • Tom Woods

  • David Knight

  • Pete Quinones

• Plus a local news email

  • Which includes political nonsense with its information

• He does interviews, but won’t watch the channels

• David and his wife do not wish to become depressed

  • Mainstream news bogs you down

  • And they lie so much!

• How do you know the podcasts aren’t lying?

  • Their message is consistent

    • Their viewpoint doesn’t change daily

    • Their goalposts, like for ending Corona, don’t move

  • Mainstream media is full of “court intellectuals”

    • They are chosen because their science leads to the government having more control over our lives

35:58 Police in a voluntary society?

• Maybe it would be like having a sheriff, since he’s elected

  • No, sheriffs are funded through theft, aka taxation

  • The government arbitrarily decides how many patrol officers and other personnel and equipment might be needed and taxes the public accordingly

  • There’s no way to know what a market-funded security entity might look like

    • But we can be sure that the market would determine what gets established

  • Democracy is not legitimate

    • It doesn’t provide just outcomes

      • If 2 wolves and a sheep vote for what’s for dinner every night, the sheep will always lose

• Sheriffs historically

  • Common law

    • Sheriff was the only law enforcement at all

  • City police forces were created in 1800’s

    • London, then NYC

    • 3-letter federal agencies came in 1900’s

      • No provision in the constitution for anything like them

      • FBI was never supposed to have weapons

  • If you think politics means anything, you would say the sheriff is the only legitimate law enforcement

    • Not as a patrol position

      • But a judge

      • And executor of justice

      • Police never catch bad guys by patrolling

        • They only take statements after the crime

• A police or security force is only necessary in a voluntary society if the market demands it, and then only to the extent that the people want

42:01 Taxation is theft

• We never signed a social contract agreeing to give up our income for services

  • If asked, most people would say no

    • And go find a different way to get their needs met

42:45 David’s reasons for being sheriff

• Even someone wrapped up in politics can see that only local solutions make sense

• Main reason: If I don’t, some guy who will do what they want will be in office running mine and my family’s lives

• If I’m sheriff, no one is telling the people in my county how to live

• Not planning to influence anything beyond local politics

  • I don’t think the state is the answer

  • I make LP people sad

• In a nutshell, to protect family and property from tyranny

45:00 Unintended consequences to lockdown

• Craig's baby brother drank himself to death

  • He was so afraid of the virus

  • He isolated himself completely 

• Nobody's talking about the high numbers of suicides and overdoses that came during COVID

• Rand Paul asked Fauci if he had thought of the consequences of a lockdown

  •  Fauci essentially just said “Nope. It's really important that everyone participate.”

• Good economics will look at more than one factor; it'll take them all into account

• The suicides and overdoses were 3x higher in David’s county after the lockdown started

  • These outnumber deaths directly attributable to COVID

  • The county north of David's just had their highest count of suicides and overdoses ever recorded

• The news will not report on this at all 

• David tries to mention it to reporters, but they likely edit it out

• 2 segments of society hardest hit: the old and the young

• The government wants people to continue believing that everything’s being done for our good

• COVID death numbers

  • The hospital got $15,000 for every COVID admission

    • Did not even require physical test

      • Could just have ⅛ general symptoms

  • They got $39,000 for every COVID death

    • Only true deaths David saw were from ventilators

  • The number is even lower in reality

    • But there were more suicides & overdoses than even the faked high number

  • Also, flu cases got counted as COVID

52:04 Contact David

• Davidhathaway@gmail.com

Writings on Lew Rockwell and Libertarian Institute

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52. Yemen: The War with No End with Scott Horton

About this episode

Scott Horton provides the truth about current events with historical context. He has a way of weaving together seemingly unconnected events to paint a big picture most people cannot see for themselves. He is the director of The Libertarian Institute, editor of antiwar.com, and runs a popular podcast called The Scott Horton Show.

Scott returns to The Bad Roman once again, in the midst of a media frenzy around Putin’s war with Ukraine, to remind us (and educate us) on the ongoing war, and general disruption, the United State of America has been wagging in Yemen and the Middle East.

What we’re doing in Yemen is illegal. We are providing every kind of support (besides troops) to Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Al Qaeda as they bomb and blockade the Houthi people in the north. Children are starving. And what do we even gain from this? A bit of money for a corporation? A feeling of world domination? There is a long, complicated history of us meddling in the Middle East that led us to this point. Scott Horton sorts it out for us. 

To learn more about Scott Horton and his work, you can follow Scott on Twitter. buy or listen to his books about the war in the Middle East. If you are interested in learning more about the situation and Yemen and the middle east check out episode 23, our first interview with Scott.

EPISODE TIMESTAMPS:

1:57 What happened to Biden’s Promise?

• He ordered that everything we were doing in Yemen stop

  • Yet it continues

  • He ordered that resupply and maintenance, intelligence and logistics from the US cease

  • The US used to refuel Saudi/UAE planes in the air and created a Navy blockade against Iran, but stopped 

  • Admiral Kirby had said they were going to implement Biden’s order in February

    • By May, he was saying, “Of course, we need to send them plane maintenance teams”

    • After that, we just resumed our support

5:40 The Price of War

• Civilians are suffering the most

• No one is even keeping a casualty count for citizens

• They’ll tell us about the humanitarian crisis after it’s all over

6:46 Why no one cares in the US

• Yemen is far away

• People don’t even know where it is

• Also, we’re not sending troops to die or be injured there, so it’s not personal to us

7:33 Why do we keep it going?

• We have to do whatever Saudi Arabia tells us

• Money

  • From arms sales to Saudis

• There will not be a good enough reason to satisfy us

  • Nothing they could say would make this reasonable

• Petrodollar

• To stay dominant in the Middle East

10:35 Who is our enemy?

• Right now, we’re backing Al Qaeda

• Obama’s drone wars were against Al Qaeda

  • Special forces sent in a lot

    • Still probably are at times

    • But we are not occupying

• Switched sides in 2015

11:43 People's awareness

• Even when we fully invaded Iraq, people stopped paying attention by the end of 2003

• Even well-educated friend thought Yemen was in Africa

  • It’s the southwestern tip of the Arabian Peninsula

• This has been going on for decades, but no one noticed until Obama started bombing in 2009

  • Except that one incident where Bush bombed a car belonging to Al-Quaeda and killed an American who was hanging out with them

    • After that, he let the Yemeni dictator do the fighting

      • The dictator was playing both sides

        • Fighting Al-Qaeda

        • Also paying them to fight the Shiites

  • Obama said that Bush was going after too many groups

    •  Focused on Al-Qaeda

      1. Turns out there were only 29 guys to target

      2. Killed thousands of people in Pakistan

      3. In exchange, we helped them win against the Taliban

      4.  That war led to the rise of ISIS

      5. Al-Qaeda was responsible for

         1. Coordinating 9/11

         2. Tried to bomb a plane over Detroit

         3. Charlie Hebdo attack

         4. Printer cartridge plots

         5. Comic Convention in France

         6. Death metal concert

         7. Other massacres in France

         8. One in Brussels

17:42 Houthi

• Scott's episode with Shereen, she mentioned that Houthis have more support than ever

• Sort of like what Ron Paul said

  • They're mad because we're bombing their homes, so they're retaliating the best way they know-how

    • They end up creating or joining terrorist organizations

18:44 Rewind - How did the War in Yemen Start

• Jimmy Carter’s problem

  • Americans had Vietnam Syndrome – they were done with war

  • His national security advisors wanted to go against Russia

  • They decided if we can't directly fight them, we should convince them to fight a worthless war like we just did and drain all their resources

    • We baited them into unsustainable over-expansion

      • In Afghanistan

      • By supporting the Mujahideen

      • Russia invaded that winter, but who knows if our actions had anything to do with it 

      • We continued to fight the Soviets through the Mujahideen and the Arab Afghan Army

        • Arab men from around the world who came to fight the holy war

        • Formed into Al Qaeda

          • Every Al Qaeda group in the world currently has its roots with fighting for the CIA under Reagan against the Soviets in Afghanistan

      • We also supported Saddam Hussein against Iran in the 80s

        • Our puppet government had been overthrown

        • Supported Saddam for 8 years

          • Until he invaded Kuwait

          • Suddenly, we launched Operation Desert Storm at him

      • Bush Sr. encouraged the Shiite uprising in Iraq

        • until he realized the leaders came from Iran

        • then we had them crushed by Saddam Hussein

          • We blamed him for the massacre and went to war against him

          • “We’re Superman, and it’s our job to protect these Shiites” - Scott

24:44 Why they attacked us

• We kept our bases in Saudi Arabia to police Iraq and Iran

  • All the Mujahideen mercenaries we had created turned on us

    • We were occupying their holy land

      • Imagine if Jesus had been born in Texas and someone just decided to own that space

• Revenge

• For backing Israel against Palestine

• For supporting dictators in the region

26:09 Their strategy

• Hit us

• Bog us down

• Trick us as we’d tricked the Soviets

  • Get us to invade Afghanistan

    • The loss of Afghani life doesn’t matter to them

      • If they’re true Muslims, they’ll go to Heaven

    • The goal was to break the power of the American Empire

    • America spread the Jihad throughout the region

      • We radicalized people everywhere we went because we brought chaos

27:51 Continued timeline

• George W took the Shiites his dad abandoned to Baghdad

  • Kicked the Sunnis out of power

    • Pushed them out of the city right into the open arms of Al Qaeda

• Radicalized fighters from across the region met in Iraq to attack us and the Shiites

  • Suicide bombers

  • Head choppers

  • They targeted civilians and people praying at the mosque

• After the war, they all went home and caused trouble

  • Syria, Libya, Yemen…

  • Obama took their side in Libya and Syria

• Obama ordered the CIA to go after Al Qaeda

  • So, they drop bombs and missiles on those associated with Bin Laden

  • Small problem: “People really don't like it when you drop gigantic explosives on their family members and tear their bodies apart.” - Scott

    • Good motivation to join Al Qaeda

      • “Obama's trying to kill these guys, but as he's killing them, he's just essentially watering the garden with their blood and growing more and more of their replacements.” - Scott

31:54 Yemen

• The USA is bombing Al Qaeda

• Bribing Saleh in the capital with money and weapons for permission to bomb

  • But he was also hiring Al Qaeda to help him fight his enemies

    • He was losing, and his enemy got stronger with each defeat

    • He also was financing his enemy

  • They were all getting worn out

• 2011 Arab Spring

  • Successful in Egypt and Tunisia

  • The whole region breaks out and tries to overthrow rulers

  • In Yemen, all groups gathered and agreed: Ali Abdullah Saleh must go

    • Many protests

    • Assassination attempts with explosives

      • 2nd one who injured him went to Saudi Arabia for treatment

    • While he was in the hospital, Hilary made a deal with the Saudis to replace Saleh with his VP

      • They created a one-man election, he would not allow for re-election; he just stayed in office, he caused gas prices to double/triple overnight; made the Houthis’ lives more difficult and then tried to attack them (see a full list of the terrible things this guy did in Scott’s book)

      • He lost, just like Saleh always did, but this time because of Saleh he didn’t go away quietly and took two-thirds of the army with him. They then allied with his former enemies in order to attack the new ruler, who, it turns out, he was actually a Zaydi Shiite from the north

38:00 Houthis vs Saleh’s VP

• 2014, the Houthi-Saleh alliance seized the capital

• 2015, US Central Command allied with Houthis

  • Gave them intelligence to fight Al Qaeda

  • … until we didn’t

    • Obama stabbed them in the back

    • Suddenly, we’re allied with Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Al Qaeda trying to drive the Houthis out of power

      • No progress has been made in this war

  • Loophole of responsibility 

    • No American lives are being lost

    • This is a Saudi-led coalition

      • We're just helping them out a bit

41:30 Does that make any sense?

• We are the empire

  • Saudi Arabia is our client: We make all the equipment in the US - this is our war

  • Why are we begging our clients to stay with us?

    • For money? Why are we so desperate for money?

• Trump had raised tariffs on China

  • This hurt American manufacturing because pricing and availability changed

  • We’d already cut taxes

  • We decided to bolster the Military-Industrial Complex

  • Made a contract with Raytheon to build all the equipment

  •  as if that boosts our entire economy somehow

  • Trump boasted that Saudi Arabia was spending $450 billion on our weapons 

  • They really only spent $3 billion, which is enough to kill way too many people

  • He claimed that a million jobs were reliant on Saudi Arabia’s purchases

  • Maybe 30,000 are

  • It's really just welfare for big companies that are paid for in human lives 

45:30 What to bomb

• The Saudi military can bomb whatever they want

• The US Military can blame things on Saudi Arabia, so they also can attack wherever they want 

• They're fighting an economic war by bombing farms, roads, and marketplaces

• Hospitals

• Bombing water has led to cholera outbreaks

  • Biggest outbreak since WWII

  • Babies and toddlers die of dehydration

48:03 Reminder of who we are fighting

• Our enemies in Yemen never attacked us

  • Our allies did

• The Houthis are not heroes, but they never did anything to provoke an attack from us

• We keep attacking civilians

  • Against Geneva Convention

    • We would lock anyone else up for our crimes

    • Lawyers working for POTUS have written memos saying we’re breaking the law and could get in trouble

• Every US president involved is a war criminal

  • Every president since Carter is condemned in this episode

  • “They’re just presidents. They’re not America.” - Scott

  • They’re the worst people in North America

  • They’ve all done terrible things; none is better than the others

  • None of this should hurt your feelings. You don’t have a personal connection to any president.

  • “I don't think that you have to condemn America to condemn that man and the decisions he made.” - Scott

  • Both Trump and Obama made decisions to kill thousands just to placate someone else on the hill

  • These men do not represent the wishes or morals of the American people

    • “You can get people to cheer for these things, but only by lying to them from morning to night in order to get them to be afraid and then endorse the idea that their government is only trying their best to protect them when it's just not true” - Scott

  • “I’m not anti-American; I’m anti-government-of-America.” - Craig

  • The average citizen is not guilty except by electing the people who are

56:22 Branch Davidians at Waco

• Americans

• Took over a tiny plot of land in a tiny town in Texas

• FBI & president acted as if they were foreigners

  • The reality is, we’re all American

• 2 sides + innocents caught in the crossfire

• Treated David Koresh like Saddam Hussein

  • Called him crazy so they could seize his weapons and kill him “to save everyone else”

  • Same script in 1993 that they used again in 2003

• The threats they tell us about just aren’t that likely to attack, in reality

  • Unless the US influences the situation to start something

  • “This is the big secret… America has no enemies in the world at all.” - Scott

    • We would be just fine without the Pentagon or a military

      • Ron Paul said we could defend ourselves with just a couple of good submarines holding basic torpedoes

59:46 World powers

• USA

• Brazil?

  • 2nd biggest American economy after the US, Canada, and Mexico

    • Canada and Mexico are not threats; we’re friends

  • Does not have a navy

• Europe

  • Friends

  • Including Russia

    • Putin will tell you we’re partners

• Africa

  • None

  • Egypt is under our thumb

    • They wouldn’t start a war that shuts down their main source of income (the Suez Canal) and gets them bombed

• India

  • A billion people, most desperately poor

  • No outward foreign policy in place at all

• China

  • Our 2nd biggest trading partner

  • Nixon made friends with Mao 50 years ago

    • Separated them from the Soviet Union

    • Mao was so dangerous, it was better to be his friend

  • After Mao died, it was more of a fascist dictatorship with a market economy

  • The worst that might happen is they invade Taiwan, which is unlikely

    • We officially recognize Taiwan as part of China

    • We don’t want a war there, but we probably won’t defend Taiwan

  • Even if they did take Taiwan, they’re not going to go further and overtake the US as the world empire  

• Other Asian countries

  • Just not interested in conflict

  • Japan is no longer an imperialist power

    • Their population is aging

• Middle East

  • Conflicts among tribal and religious groups

  • But Iran is not coming for Israel

    • And if they were, Israel is the most aggressive threat in the region

• “We could just completely shed ourselves of this militarism and be a limited constitutional republic with a free-market capitalist economy.” - Scott

  • No one can look back at the last 20 years and say, “Thank God we did that!”

  • Our bridges and other infrastructure are crumbling

    • We wasted $10 trillion blowing innocent people up

      • To shuffle power around in the Middle East

1:07:13 The humanitarian crisis in Yemen

• Every 75 seconds, a child dies from hunger due to the blockade

• Famine

• The poorest country in the Middle East

• IMF convinced them to plow under their millet and other food crops

  •  Planted coffee and cotton instead

  •  Sold on the global market so they could trade yummy food from other countries

  •  Worked great until the US blockaded them

    •  You can't eat cotton and coffee

• Houthis were defined as a terrorist organization, but it was redacted

  • Talking about doing that again

    • Which will make it illegal to send in food or other aid

• This is not propaganda like Saddam Hussein throwing premature babies on the floor

  • This is real.

  • These babies are dying.

  • Starving to death.

• “We need to stop doing this; we need to find a different path.” - Craig

1:10:30 Religious War?

• Christians in the US we’re told we had to go fight the spread of radical Islam

  • Saddam Hussein was an atheist

    • He was afraid of Osama Bin Laden’s Islam

• For years, we were told we must stop the Muslims from wiping us out

  • Now, we’ve forgotten about them

    • Focus has shifted to China and Russia

• Truth: “Al Qaeda is still out there and the American policies that drive them to attack us still exist in great measure.” - Scott

• We support all these kings and sultans

• The danger comes from American policies messing stuff up

• It doesn’t have to be this way

• Most people just don’t understand how the whole story is connected

  • Or that it’s possible for us to not be over there in the Middle East

  • Ron Paul tried to tell people we could get out

    • They simply dismissed him

• Trump called George W the dumbest and worst

  • Caused Republicans to decide between Bush and Trump: which is worse?

  • If they wanted to stay loyal to the current guy, they had to denounce their old beliefs

  • Also, Trump is ruthless

    • If he thought bombing the Middle East would help America, he would not hesitate

      • But he didn’t think that

      • He wanted out

  • Trump led people to question not only why we were over there under Bush

    • But why we are still over there

• Colonel Douglas MacGregor

  • Wrote the book on invasions

  • Says we don’t have to be in conflict with Russia

    • Or China

    • We don’t have any enemies at all

      • Anyone who says otherwise needs their head examined

1:18:28 George Washington’s ghost

• Calling out, “It’s supposed to be a limited republic!”

  • Not in a constant state of war and/or emergency

  • War is only for extreme situations

  • How can we be free or have rights in an emergency state?

• We are not protecting the Bill of Rights

  • We’re not passing it down

  • It is dying

• We don't have a pact with Jesus to protect our Bill of Rights

• You can’t have a limited republic with a world empire

  • Economic pain? High inflation?

    • Empire economics

      • No hard money

        • Must be able to print more for emergencies

    • “This is the bubble, friends, and the crash is coming.” - Scott

---

Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

23. Scott Horton - The United States Empire - Genocide in Yemen and Beyond

In this episode, Craig digs deep with Scott Horton about the US government’s direct involvement with the war of genocide occurring in Yemen and the general stirring of the pot by the US in the Middle East. In addition to being the editorial director at antiwar.com, Scott, a self-proclaimed Ron Paul libertarian, is also the founder of The Libertarian Institute and author of the book, Fool’s Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan. Scott shares his insights regarding the culture war aspect in partisan politics and how every president since George H. W. Bush has been the same product with a different brand name. 

Is the war in Yemen designed to create famine? And if so, how did we get there, why, and what should a Christian’s response be to their government’s involvement in such heinous atrocities? 

Timestamps for further exploration: 

1:22 Scott Horton’s background 

• Ron Paul 

• antiwar.com 

• The Libertarian Institute 

• Fool’s Errand 

• Benje Graves 

6:20 The Culture War Aspect 

• Importance of Ron Paul 

• Micheal Moore and Jane Fonda - stereotypes of being antiwar  

• Conservatives, Libertarians, and patriots 

• abandoning the world empire 

11:45 Craig’s transition, beginning in 2000 

• single-issue voter 

• 9/11 full-fledge neocon 

• 2016 & Trumpism 

• 3rd party options 

13:00 Bill Clinton’s role in the hate for the US found in the Middle East 

• Are we required to defend Clinton because of patriotism? 

• Bush’s blue blood 

• Carole Quigly 

23:00 Trump’s relationship with Wall Street 

25:45 Exploring the problems US involvement causes  in the Middle East 

• the effect of sanctions 

27:30 What would it take for a libertarian to become president?

32:20 Biden: Zionist agent of a foreign power 

• Ayatollah 

• Iran Nuclear Deal 

• Beijing 

• Milton Friedman 

• Mao Zedong 

36:50 Yemen: Why are we there? 

• the effects of US involvement 

Do people have to decide where their priorities lie? God? Or the state? 

Additional links:

The Great Ron Paul, Interview Transcripts 

11. Stephen founder of AnarchoChristian - Planting the Seeds for a Voluntary Society & Consistency in Pursuing Christ

This week Craig speaks with Stephen, the founder of AnarchoChristain, about his journey to Christian Anarchism. They discuss Stephen talks about the roots of entanglement with the state Stephen's life, if the youth may be more capable of #NoKingButChrist thinking, and the false Messiah syndrome that, as we move closer to the 2020 US election, seems to be plaguing American minds in the midst of a pandemic.

This episode reminds us that the work of building the Kingdom is generational—it’s on God’s time. The efforts of the State are often finite—small or large grabs at power— they can only last, at most, a human life. A voluntary society is not a nation, but, as Craig and Stephen explore in the episode, it is not without rules or order either. Often people turn a blind eye to what we are seeking to bring into the world, not because they disagree with the principle, but rather they can not begin to imagine what a voluntary society would actually function, feel like, or look like on a day to day basis. That’s why we’re here. 

Time Stamps & Starting Points for Further Exploration:

07:36 “To say we don’t need a government rejects the Biblical truth of a fallen world. I don’t want to imagine a world with pacifist Christians and godless tyrants”

10:19 1 Samuel 8

11:30 Nero, Romans 12 NIV, Romans 13 NIV

19:35 Stephen is Stoned to Death

29:10 How to Win Friends and Influence People - Dale Carnegie

33:33 “Would you be okay with a draft in the military? If not, how would you defend a voluntary society without enough people enlisted in the military?”

36:35 Battle of the Alamo, Libyan Civil War

43:39 2016–2020 Yemen cholera outbreak

51:13 Military-Industrial Complex

Have a question about this episode or any previous episodes? Leave us a voice message or send us an email of your question or comment and your question could be on the next Bad Roman Round Table.