About this Episode

Jamie Cain, host of the Liberty Uninterrupted podcast, joins Craig to discuss the military-industrial complex as someone who lived as its pawn. Despite his father’s warning that he would not be fighting for freedom but rather for lobbyists and bankers, at 17 years old, liberty-loving Jamie joined the military. A few years later, Jamie left the military out of his love of liberty, having learned that war is a racket. Since then, he has had some success talking young people out of joining the military by exploring their reasoning for doing so and turning their patriotic logic on its head. Other times, shocking young people by being brutally honest is the only way, but Jamie is not scared of awkward conversations.

With Craig equally likely to blow up comfortable public narratives, these two could write the book on conversations guaranteed to ruin Thanksgiving dinner! In this episode, they share their views on the military-industrial complex, its propaganda, recruiting and indoctrination techniques. The Military-Industrial Complex is the murdering wing of the state. It indoctrinates and enslaves young Americans as pawns in wars for the financial gain of special interest groups and politicians.

Craig and Jamie envision a world where America’s competitors act the way America has, policing the world in the name of democracy, bombing critical infrastructure and setting up occupying forces and military bases. Of course, if anyone tried it, Americans would be rightfully angry. With military recruitment figures at crisis levels, maybe after 20 years of illegal wars it is time to bring the troops home.

Connect with Jamie:

Website

Liberty Uninterrupted podcast on:

Episode Timestamps:

2:23 – Who is Jamie Cain?

Podcast host at Liberty Uninterrupted
Voluntaryist with a libertarian podcast
Joined the military at 17 years old
War is a Racket – Major General Smedley Butler
Dad’s advice at the start of his military career:
- Remember that you are not fighting for freedom
Wanted to join the army since he was seven years old
Rich people all over the world send the poor to fight their wars
- After getting rich from taxes
- Their children do not join the military

9:15 – Why shouldn’t people join the military?

The praise that military men receive helps keep people signing up
Financial benefits help too
More veterans have committed suicide than soldiers died in Afghanistan
Military men believe they are doing the right thing
Shaming soldiers is not going to change their mind
- They don’t sign up to fight proxy wars
  - Or to support the Military-Industrial Complex
  - Or to be used as war game pawns
Shame the Military-Industrial Complex, not the people involved
- They don’t get to choose the jobs they do
  - End up in military prison if they refuse a job
Soldiers sign a contract to become the state’s property
- Even state military guards are misused
During covid, citizen’s liberties were restricted but no help came from the military
After six years, Jamie realized he had been lied to
- Clung to protecting his buddies
Jamie was woken up by Ron Paul in 2012 Presidential Election speeches
- Said invading Iraq and Afghanistan was wrong
- Talked about why the Middle East hated Americans
- Read The Revolution: A Manifesto – Ron Paul
Ron Paul’s “Giuliani Moment”
We should write a book on how to ruin Thanksgiving dinner
The United States Government has killed a holocaust worth of people
The Middle East are angry because we are occupying their land
- Children dying
  - Bombing hospitals
  - Bombing water supplies
  - Bombing weddings
- Imposing sanctions
We are not a “Christian Nation.”
- Anarchism is what Jesus would do
What would happen if other nations treated Americans the way we treat the Middle East?
- We would not remain peaceful
The US made Al-Qaeda recruitment easy through:
- Drone strikes
- Dropping bombs
- Killing families

19:54 – Everyone has a man crush on Ron Paul

Christians don’t vote

Even Ron Paul, who:
- Used the platform honorably
- Woke many people up
- Influenced culture
- Used the system against itself

If Ron Paul couldn’t change the system, no one can
Anarchists don’t vote
The state and military are backed by Satan
Power corrupts even the best of intentions
- Be it political or military
Jamie’s dad’s speech annoyed him
- But it helped him to understand Ron Paul’s words
- Left him open to the truth

38:30 - Should we pull the troops back and simply defend the US?

No one is going to come and kill Americans
- There are 400 million guns in the US
Taking guns from everyone does not make sense
- More money and power will go to the state
- Gun control is a means of controlling people
Other countries have no interest in attacking the US
- There is no advantage to doing so
  - Scott Horton and anitwar.com
We can’t put military bases across the world without upsetting some people
- There is no such thing as peacekeeping soldiers
- They appear as an occupying force
Our government is our biggest threat
- China isn’t taking half my pay
- China is not taking our guns away
- China is not killing my neighbour for smoking weed
Those who don’t vote have the right to complain about who is in power
- Voters give power to the system through participation
- They love it when their side is in control but not when the opposition has power
Murray Rothbard – For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto

48:55 – Talking young people out of joining the military

Jamie meets a lot of young people
- They ask him for advice regarding joining the military
- He asks them, “Why do you want to join the military?”
  - Establishes their reasoning
- Often they say it because they feel they should
  - This is due to propaganda
- Follow-up questions revolve around their answers
  - If they say they feel that they should, he asks “Do you come from a patriotic family?” and “What’s so patriotic about joining the military?”
- Maybe it is more patriotic to stay home and build communities and families
  - Use their own reasoning and apply it to them not joining up
- “What’s so exciting about getting your leg blown off for oil?”
- Blow up their narrative
- Every war since WWII that the US has been involved in is illegal under the constitution
- Who wants to kill people they don’t even know?

54:58 – Do the police help?

They didn’t prevent the slaughter of children in Uvalde
The Supreme Court says they have no duty to protect anyone
In an anarchist society, there is no monopoly on protection services
Covid proved that police exist to protect the state
- And politicians
Libertarian views might not be socially appropriate
- But we should open our mouths anyway
- Be honest
The military treats individuals like trash
- Pawns in wars
- No life skills outside the military
  - People get stuck

1:00:19 – We won’t all agree

If you ask Craig a question, you will get his honest answer
People do not all agree
- If a voluntary society came tomorrow, people would still argue philosophy
- Life is not black and white – Craig
- There’s room for nuance – Jamie
The military-industrial complex is the murdering wing of the state
- It’s using Americans to build an agenda
The Army military recruitment is down tremendously
- Go woke, go broke
- 20 years of war might have woken people up
- The military has a serious recruiting problem – Congress must fix it
- If numbers are down, will something new happen to make people patriotic?