About this Episode
Craig is joined by John Krueger for a conversation about his journey from being an angry Anarcho-Capitalist to a peaceful Anarcho-Christian. Unjust police killings, SWAT raids gone wrong and harsh lockdowns made John angry. He was eager to learn how to use a gun and imagined himself needing to protect his family from police violence. In the midst of this, the Holy Spirit met John and showed him a peaceful option.
Libertarian philosophy is peaceful, but we need Jesus and His word to have the whole picture. Craig and John advocate for Christian pacifism and examine what was going on in their hearts at the points when they both contemplated joining the military. Craig and John discuss the libertarian and Christian anarchist positions on the decriminalization of drugs, the real needs of terrorists, the US at war, gun control, and other contentious current issues.
The state is coercion and violence. Laws are enforced with fines that are begrudgingly paid to avoid the threat of violence or time spent in a cage. You cannot make people peaceful like this, using the state’s methods. But rather, we need to be those who allow the Holy Spirit to work in us to change the hearts and minds of those surrounding us; that is how social change works in the Kingdom. Let’s listen to Jesus and do things His way, forsaking violence and anger. Let’s work towards peace.
Connect with John Krueger on
Episode Timestamps:
1:27 – Who is John Krueger?
From Columbus, Ohio
Grew up attending church
1 Corinthians 5:9-13 stood out
Paul writes about grace
Journey to anarchism
Read Blue Like Jazz
Jesus was not a republican or a conservative
Became politically independent
Eventually considered voting
Began researching libertarianism
Clicked with his understanding of the Grace of God
Took a few more years to become an anarcho-capitalist
8:58 – Libertarians, drugs, and terrorists
It’s easy to understand decriminalizing marijuana
Harder to understand decriminalizing heroin use
People shouldn’t be locked in a cage for it
People should be free to make their own choices
Provided they aren’t hurting others
Osama Bin Laden needed Jesus
Not bombs
We can’t bomb people into peace
If we bomb all sinners, there will be no one left
John and Craig let go of the war stuff last
The history of the Middle East is important
The US is still at war
More people are mad at the US for continuously bombing them
Jesus said in His Kingdom:
You rule by washing feet
Only pagans lord it over their subjects
But instead, our “Christian Nation” goes to war
To spread democracy
We don’t need the government for roads
We don’t need police
Losing friends because of speaking out about:
Getting troops home
Veteran suicides
Broken men and families
Sending the poor to fight a rich man’s war
20:11 – Craig and John considered joining the military
Craig wanted to kill people out of anger after 911
Application rejected
4 pounds over the weight limit
John wanted to join the military because he felt powerless
Wanted to be great in battle - like David
Experienced God’s compassion for those killed on both sides
Christians still justify war and killing
Jesus said when you have seen me, you have seen the Father
There is nothing about Jesus’ life that says you can kill in war
Pacifism is the way for Christians
Craig still gets a hard time from Christians for his pacifist stance
The early church was 100% pacifist
Even to their own deaths
Jesus healed the Roman soldier and admonished Peter
When Jesus disarmed Peter, he disarmed every Christian
26:24 – Libertarians and Gun Control
After shootings those on the left talk about taking away guns
But guns will be taken away by force
Giving more power to the state
Need to study history
We don’t advocate for gun control
It’s enforced by violence
We should bear God’s peace instead
The left sees calls to reduce state size as calls to let people starve
John does not own guns,
Only advocates for less government action
We don’t use the state for any reason
The same people who take guns away are those who shoot unarmed black men
Fines are enforced through the threat of violence
The ‘hero’ who ended the life of a would-be shooter still ended a life
Jesus would not be training churches to enact violence
We are here to bring the gospel to people
37:10 – From angry An-Cap to peaceful Christian Anarchist
When John was an An-Cap he was angry at the state
Police killings made him angry
Made him want to get into guns
Angry at government shutdowns because of shutdowns
Holy Spirit showed him it would be better to defy the government in peaceful ways
Sneakily helping people
Not needing to worry about what to say in front of judges
Libertarians are never happy with the government
No matter who is in power they are stuffing everything up
Anger is not the fruit of the spirit
Romans 11-14 need to be read together
Our heart position should be peaceful
Libertarians need Jesus to have the full picture
42:48 – Romans 13 and libertarianism
“Submit” and “obey” are not the same
When Christians get it wrong:
They end up supporting government atrocities
Lives will be ruined
The state becomes an idol
The early church withheld communion from people who worked for the state
Unless people were already soldiers
And had sworn off killing or oppressing people
None wore their weapons
All were to serve
Getting Christians into power will not help
It is no longer Christianity
The power is the wrong power
The Holy Spirit is the only power we need
Political power is force
Christians do not need to take the ”Seven Mountains” of power
These do not sound like Jesus
Polycarp would not denounce Jesus
In the face of his own death
King Jesus has never done me any harm
Everything that the state does harms somebody in some fashion
If they are helping you, they are harming someone else
The state is not a protector
Jesus Christ is the only King
He wants the best for us
54:12 – How should we pray for government?
We should pray for government and leaders
Craig prays for the state to end
The current chaos is caused by the state
We need to follow Jesus and walk away
John prays for leadership to know the gospel
Not the American folklore
But the true gospel
Craig will take the words of the early church fathers over pastors
When modern pastors disagree with the early church
They still screwed things up
They aren’t Jesus
They were closer in time to Jesus
We need to get back to that
What we are doing now as the church is not working
The Reformers had a blind spot when it came to the church
They killed people
The Anabaptists became the Mennonites and Amish
They were peaceful
Catholics are going back to mysticism
The church fathers and grace teachings
1:02:54 – Let’s bring it back to Jesus
Listen to Jesus
Love your neighbor
Love your enemy
Love God
It’s impossible to follow His teachings
But we should try:
Working towards good
Not working toward violence
Not working towards anger or hate
Working towards peace
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