132. allegiance to God or Government? with Jason Porterfield

About this Episode

In a world where political divisions run deep and national identity often overshadows faith, how can Christians navigate the complex relationship between church and state? This episode of the Bad Roman Podcast featuring author of Fight Like Jesus: How Jesus Waged Peace Throughout Holy Week, Jason Porterfield, explores the complex relationship between Christianity and the state. 

As Christians, we know we're called to follow Jesus. Yet, many of us find ourselves caught in a web of conflicting loyalties. We pledge allegiance to flags, sing patriotic anthems, and even display national symbols in our places of worship. But is this what Jesus intended for His followers?

Jason challenges us to reconsider our assumptions about Christian citizenship and allegiance. His insights offer a fresh perspective on what it means to be a follower of Christ in a world that falsely demands our loyalty to earthly powers.

The Kingdom of God: More Than Just a Spiritual Concept

When Jesus spoke of the Kingdom of God, He wasn't merely describing a spiritual realm. He was making a bold, politically charged statement that challenged the very foundations of earthly power structures. Yet, many Christians today shy away from this revolutionary concept, preferring instead to speak of the "family of God" or other less confrontational terms.

Why do we do this? Perhaps it's because we've become too comfortable with the idea of dual citizenship – claiming allegiance to both God and country. But as Jason points out, this divided loyalty often leads to a watered-down faith where Jesus becomes Lord of less and less, while Caesar (or the state) claims lordship over everything else.

Consider this: What if we took Jesus' words about the Kingdom of God as seriously as the early Christians did? How might it change our relationship with the state and our understanding of our role in society?

Allegiance vs. Faith: Reclaiming the Power of Pistis

One of the most striking insights from this episode is the discussion around the Greek word "pistis." Often translated simply as "faith," this word carries a much deeper meaning of allegiance or loyalty. When the New Testament writers speak of giving one's pistis to Jesus, they're not just talking about believing in Him – they're calling for a complete transfer of allegiance from earthly powers to Christ.

This understanding challenges the modern Christian tendency to reduce faith to a personal, spiritual matter divorced from political and social realities. It calls us to reconsider what it truly means to declare Jesus as Lord and King.

Ask yourself: Have I reduced my faith in Jesus to mere belief, or am I willing to give Him my complete allegiance, even when it conflicts with the demands of the state?

Flags in the Sanctuary: A Symbol of Divided Loyalties

The presence of national flags in church sanctuaries is a relatively recent phenomenon, yet it's become so commonplace that many Christians don't think twice about it. However, as Jason reminds us, the early church would have found this practice deeply troubling.

Tertullian, an early Christian writer, declared that "the divine banner and the human banner do not go together, nor the standard of Christ and the standard of the devil." These words may sound harsh to modern ears, but they reflect a deep understanding of the exclusive nature of our allegiance to Christ.

Consider this: What message are we sending when we display national symbols alongside Christian ones in our places of worship? Are we inadvertently suggesting that our loyalty is divided between God and country?

Practical Implications: Living as Citizens of Heaven

So how do we live out this radical allegiance to Christ in practical terms? Jason offers several thought-provoking suggestions:

1. Rethink your language: Instead of speaking of Jesus as your personal Savior, try referring to Him as your Lord and King.

2. Reconsider your participation in national rituals: Jason shares how he stands silently during the Pledge of Allegiance, reciting the Lord's Prayer instead.

3. Engage in your community, but with a different perspective: Work for the welfare of your city or country, but do so as an ambassador of Christ's kingdom, not as a citizen of an earthly nation.

4. Be prepared for pushback: Standing firm in your allegiance to Christ may cost you relationships or opportunities, but remember that your citizenship is in heaven.

What We Learned About True Allegiance

This episode challenges us to examine our assumptions about faith, citizenship, and allegiance. It reminds us that following Jesus is not just about personal salvation – it's about pledging our loyalty to a different kingdom altogether.

As we navigate the complex landscape of modern politics and national identity, let's remember that our primary citizenship is in heaven. Our allegiance is to Christ alone, and from that foundation, we can engage with our earthly communities in ways that reflect His love, justice, and peace.

Are you ready to reclaim the revolutionary nature of your faith? Listen to the full episode for more insights on living as citizens of God's kingdom in a world that demands our allegiance. And don't forget to check out Jason Porterfield's book "Fight Like Jesus" for a deeper exploration of how Jesus modeled peacemaking and confronted injustice during Holy Week.

Let's commit to being "bad Romans" – Christians who are willing to challenge the status quo and live out our allegiance to Christ, no matter the cost.

Connect with Jason:

• Free ebook

• Website

• Twitter

• Facebook

• Instagram

Episode Timestamps:

(0:22) Episode Overview

• Discussion on phrases used to define the kingdom of God

• Examination of national flags in churches

• Guest Jason Porterfield returns to the show

(0:56) Jason Porterfield Returns to the Show

• Jason Porterfield on Past Bad Roman Episodes

• Waging Peace: Seeing God Before the Resurrection with Jason Porterfield, Episode 54

• Keith Giles & Jason Porterfield - Fight Like a Christian, Episode 14

• Updates on Jason's family and work

• Impact of recent political policies on Jason's life and ministry

(2:47) Current Political Climate

• Craig and Jason discuss the challenges of Christian engagement with politics

• Concerns about Christians celebrating divisive political actions

(4:26) Motivations Behind Jason's Recent Post

• Jason shares the context of a church service that inspired his post

• Reflection on J.D. Vance's comments about Christian priorities

(9:24) Church Diversity and Political Tensions

• Discussion on political diversity within Jason's church (Quaker Friends Church)

• Challenges of maintaining Christian unity amid political differences

(12:27) Analyzing Jason's Four-Point Post

• Point 1: Jesus spoke of the kingdom of God, but that's too political

• Exploration of reducing the meaning of Jesus' teachings

(18:03) The Power of Language in Christian Identity

• Importance of recognizing Jesus as King

• Implications of using "Christ" vs. "King" in reference to Jesus

(24:24) Early Church Perspectives on Allegiance

• Historical examples of early Christians prioritizing allegiance to Christ

• Tertullian's statements on allegiance to God vs. Caesar

(28:22) Jesus' Teachings on Taxes and Allegiance

• Justin Martyr

• Analysis of Jesus' response to paying taxes to Caesar

• Early church interpretations of Jesus' teachings on allegiance

(35:33) The Bruderhof Community's Resistance to Nazism

• Example of Christians maintaining allegiance to Christ during political pressure

• Bonhoeffer's influence on the Bruderhof's stance

(46:21) Flags in Churches and Pledges of Allegiance

• Jason's personal approach to pledges of Allegiance

• Discussion on the presence of national flags in church sanctuaries

(54:56) Jason's Resource: 100 Early Christian Quotes on Not Killing

• Origin and purpose of Jason's compilation of early Christian quotes

• Importance of understanding early church perspectives on violence

(57:51) Jason's Book: Fight Like Jesus

• Overview of the book's focus on Jesus' actions during Holy Week

• Encouragement to read the book during the Lenten season

(59:48) Conclusion and Additional Resources

• Invitation to explore Jason's website for more resources

• Importance of Christians considering their relationship to the state

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97. Christianity Unpacked in "Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen" with Domenic Scarcella

About this Episode

Are we forgetting the rebellious, defiant nature of Jesus? Have we overlooked his active resistance to the political and religious hierarchies of his time, and his challenging calls for us to be good neighbors rather than good citizens? That's what we'll be unpacking in our fascinating conversation with our guest, Domenic , author of the book "Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen". 

 Domenic provides an intriguing reading of Jesus' teachings, bringing to light the elements that often get overlooked in contemporary Christianity. We dissect the Stations of the Cross, Jesus's nonviolent resistance, and how to use his book as a tool for contemplation. 

As we journey through these narratives, we confront the controversial topic of police violence and its relationship to the Christian faith. This episode holds some challenging viewpoints that question the traditional support of law enforcement and military by modern Christians. The non-violent teachings of Jesus and his brutal treatment by the 'good cops' of his day serve as the crux of this discussion. We highlight that violence, be it personal or outsourced, remains a contradiction to the teachings of Jesus, and is thus a sin.

We also carve out time to talk about the unfathomable nature of God, and the significance of the Holy Spirit, offering some new food for thought on the intersection of faith and politics.  Domenic gives us a glimpse into his new sub-stack, extending an invitation to join the ongoing conversation about Christian ethics. As we round off, we reflect on the essence of community, shared faith, and why being both a good neighbor and a bad citizen, as Jesus was, might just be the unconventional perspective we need today. This is one episode that is sure to challenge your perspectives and spark spirited discussions. Tune in, and let's question together!

Connect with Domenic:

• Get the book!

• Follow his Substack - Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen

• Twitter (X) @GoodNeighBadCit

Episode Timestamps:

(00:00) Jesus' Way of the Cross

Domenic Scarcella shares insights from his book on being a good neighbor and citizen, using Jesus' teachings and the principle of no King but Christ.

(12:07) Stations of the Cross in Christianity

Early Christians made pilgrimages to Jerusalem, walking the way of the cross, and Jesus chose to be a good neighbor despite brutal treatment by civil authorities.

(26:02) Contemporary Christianity and the Nature of Christ

Contemporary Christianity, faith and presence, the temptation of Christ, Gospels as a guide, Jesus' resilience, God's gifts, the role of the cross in redemption.

(34:28) Cross and Nonviolence

Jesus teaches nonviolence, defiance of hierarchy, and humbling of authorities for redemption.

(45:05) Reflections on the Cross Stations

Veronica's role in Jesus' crucifixion and the importance of women in his ministry, along with the good neighbor model of crime and justice.

(53:35) Correcting Bad Theology, Bible Importance

Jesus corrects bad theology and prioritizes himself over the Bible, as shown in his death by good cops.

(56:59) Good Cops and Violence in Christianity

Police violence and Christianity, good cops led to Jesus' death, the entire system protects the state, Jesus practiced non-violence, early church's stance on non-violence.

(01:07:22) Holy Spirit and Book Promotion

Seeking the Holy Spirit, exploring the intersection of faith and politics, and discussing the harmony between anarchism and Christianity.

(01:11:28) Faith and Community Conversation

Domenic discusses community, shared faith, and how Jesus was a good neighbor and bad citizen in this passionate conversation.

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