113. From Mormon LDS to Freedom in Christ: Unveiling Lies in Medicine, Government, and Religion

About this Episode

In this episode of the Bad Roman podcast, host Craig Harguess speaks with Claire Dalton, the host of the Clarity podcast. Claire shares her journey of leaving the LDS Church, her battle with chronic Lyme disease, and her views on the influence of government and institutional corruption. This episode explores faith, freedom, and the pursuit of truth, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of these issues.

Claire begins by discussing her background, including her upbringing in Utah within the mainstream LDS Church. She delves into the cultural and religious environment she grew up in and the factors that led her to question and eventually leave the LDS Church. Claire also shares her professional experiences as a farmer, nonprofit president, and sales representative, explaining how these roles have shaped her perspectives and contributed to her current projects.

A significant portion of the conversation addresses common misconceptions about Mormonism, particularly the belief that polygamy is a central tenet of the faith. Claire provides historical context and evidence to challenge these mainstream LDS teachings, arguing that the original teachings of Joseph Smith did not endorse polygamy. She also highlights the experiences of those who leave the LDS Church to follow Christ, differentiating them from those who leave religion entirely, and discusses the importance of creating platforms to share their stories.

Claire's personal and family struggles with chronic Lyme disease are another focal point of the episode. She details the symptoms, misdiagnoses, and the long journey to finding the correct diagnosis for both herself and her mother. The conversation delves into the controversial origins of Lyme disease, including theories about government involvement and bioweapon experiments. Claire discusses the historical context, such as Operation Paperclip and the release of weaponized ticks, and criticizes the medical system for its inability to properly diagnose and treat chronic illnesses like Lyme disease. She shares her journey of seeking alternative treatments and emphasizes the importance of partnering with God for healing.

The episode also explores the influence of government and institutional corruption. Claire argues that government control has infiltrated numerous sectors, including the food industry, education, the medical system, and even religious institutions. She provides examples of how this corruption manifests and its effects on society. Claire argues that statism is inherently satanic, highlighting how government control contradicts Christian teachings and discussing the importance of recognizing and resisting this influence to live a life aligned with Christ's teachings.

Faith and freedom are central themes throughout the episode. Claire and Craig emphasize the significance of the message "No King but Christ" in contemporary Christianity, discussing how this principle guides their lives and the importance of prioritizing Christ over state and institutional allegiances. Claire shares her vision for creating authentic Christian communities that are not bound by traditional church structures, advocating for home churches and genuine fellowship centered around Christ's teachings.

Listeners will gain insights into the personal and spiritual challenges faced by those who leave the LDS Church and seek to follow Christ. They will learn about the controversial origins of Lyme disease, the failures of the medical system, and the importance of seeking alternative treatments. The episode also provides an understanding of the influence of government in various aspects of life and its implications for personal freedom and societal well-being. Finally, listeners will discover the importance of prioritizing Christ over state and institutional allegiances and the value of building authentic Christian communities.

This episode explores the intersections of faith, health, and societal structures, providing listeners with insights and encouraging them to question and explore their own beliefs and experiences. Claire's storytelling, combined with Craig's questions, makes this a valuable listen for anyone interested in the complexities of faith, freedom, and truth.

Connect with Claire Dalton:

• The Clarity Podcast on YouTube

• Claire Dalton's website

• Follow Claire on social media: Facebook @forgedinhisfire and Instagram @forgedinhisfire

Episode Timestamps:

Timestamps:

1:04 Guest Introduction

• Claire Dalton shares her background: raised in Utah, former LDS member, farmer, nonprofit president, and sales representative.

• Claire's journey from mainstream LDS to her current faith and projects.

2:22 Entanglement of Churches with the State

• Discussion on how the events of 2020 revealed the deep entanglement of many churches with the state.

• Claire's observations on the disillusionment of many Christians with their churches during this period.

1:41 Claire's Personal Journey

• Claire's story of leaving the LDS church and starting her podcast.

• The importance of sharing stories of those who leave the LDS church to follow Christ.

5:28 Misconceptions about Mormonism 

• Claire addresses common misconceptions about Mormonism, including the belief that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy.

• Historical evidence and personal beliefs that challenge mainstream LDS teachings on polygamy.

26:35 The Impact of Chronic Illness

• Claire's personal and family experiences with chronic Lyme disease.

• The political and controversial history of Lyme disease, including its origins and the government's role.

30:18 Critique of the Medical System

• Discussion on the failures of the medical system to address chronic illnesses effectively.

• The role of vaccines and other medical interventions in exacerbating health issues.

53:04 Statism and Its Influence

• Claire and Craig discuss the pervasive influence of statism in various aspects of life, including food, education, and healthcare.

• The idea that statism is inherently satanic and contrary to Christian teachings.

59:20 Closing Remarks

• Seek the truth and question the systems they are part of

• The importance of community and supporting those who are chronically ill or marginalized.

• Craig and Claire reflect on the importance of living out Christian values authentically

---

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91. Breaking Down the Jones Plantation Film with Larken Rose

About this Episode

What would it look like if we peeled back the curtains of societal discourse and examined the bitter truths often swept under the rug? How would our perspectives shift if we truly understood the power dynamics that govern our world? In a dynamic and insightful discussion, the Bad Roman Project welcomes back Larken Rose to the podcast, as we delve into the thought-provoking themes presented in the Jones Plantation film. Our discussion centers around the film's potent representation of debt, enslavement, and the manipulative nature of political language.

In the latter part of our conversation, we admire the production brilliance behind the Jones Plantation film. From its low-budget brilliance to the unique concept of breaking the fourth wall, we explore how the movie engages its audience in a critical examination of the sociopolitical landscape. Echoing the ethos of the Bad Roman Podcast, we also discuss how the film encourages viewers to think independently, drawing their own conclusions and interpretations.

Finally, we reflect on the reactions to the Jones Plantation film and its potential long-term impact. We examine the significance of the film's symbolism and the truths it presents, prompting viewers to examine their beliefs and biases. As we dissect the captivating symbolism and raw truths embedded in the film, we invite you to join us in this compelling discourse. Prepare to be intrigued by Larken's insightful reflections and ready to engage in a conversation that promises to stir thought and stimulate dialogue.

Larken Rose:

The Most Dangerous Superstition 

YouTube

Candles in the Dark

Facebook

The Jones Plantation Film

The Book: https://www.thejonesplantation.com/

Episode Timestamps:

 01:04 Larken Rose 

• Importance of recognizing what is required for peaceful coexistence

• Podcasts, Joe Rogan, erosion of corporate media’s influence

4:45 Feedback from Nonanarchists on The Jones Plantation (2023)

• Mr. Smith in the movie equates slaves to livestock

• Herd mentality, IRS example

• Jones Plantation Novel

• How easy are people to exploit?

9:19 Church Imagery in Movie

• Was it intentional?

• Any ideology (including religion) could be weaponized to control populations

• Mr. Smith acts as a (bad) minister

13:39 Casting 

• Mariuce Johnson as Mr. Smith

• The cast had not met until the shoot started 

14:59 Larken’s Role(s) in the film

• Police Officer, bank teller

• Keeping People in Debt

• Proverbs 22:7  

• Covid and Obedience

• The Federal Reserve System

• Political parasites on money

20:49 Murder of the Child in the Movie (spoiler alert)

• Plantation owners’ anger than acceptance and embrace of it

• False Flags

• When things go wrong psychopaths can grab power

• The state gets its power from your suffering

• Celebrity Response to Maui Fire

• The purpose of giving is to be of service not show people how great you are

• Importance of having workers’ perspective in Jone’s Plantation

• What discussions are had behind closed doors?

• How far will people go for power?

28:46 Dissecting the Political Capmgim Scenes in the Film

• Backroom meeting

• Parallels to a real Election Processes 

• Theatre of opposition

• Was Obama truly grassroots?

• #votejones

35:52 Examing the Beating of Samuel in the Film

• “The harder you struggle the tighter your chains become”

• Danger of the fear-based crowd

• Would you be on the right side?

40:20 Bad Roman Discussion Group Questions

• Why break the fourth wall?

• How much was planned v. happy accidents via budget constraints?

• Andrew as “the department”

• Biblical relevance to Samuel on purpose?

• Explain the self-flogging scene

• What we see people do can vary greatly from what they do when no one is looking

• Was the cast all on board with the ideas of the movie? 

• What has the feedback been?

1:00:00 Where to find the film and connect with Larken Rose

• The Film:  jonesplatation.com

• The Book: https://www.thejonesplantation.com/

• The Most Dangerous Superstition 

• YouTube

• Candles in the Dark

• Facebook

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83. The Cult of Statism with Larken Rose

About this Episode

Prominent anarchist activist and author Larken Rose joins Craig for a lively discussion on deprogramming people from the cult of statism. People are mostly inherently good at heart but have been indoctrinated from a young age to believe that government is a legitimate authority. Larken Rose makes a clear case for the immorality of government. Larken and Craig discuss how to engage statists using methods designed to combat their cognitive biases and awaken their inner anarchist.

Government preys on people's fears to keep them voting for corrupt politicians' forcible domination of their neighbors. To keep the rules, the ruling class (politicians) have enforcers (police) empowered to engage in acts of violence that most voters would bulk at committing against another human beings. Thus, when Christians vote, they are unwittingly breaking Jesus' golden rule and doing to others the exact opposite of what they want to have done to themselves. 

Christians should be the most suspicious of the state as it is a competing religious entity with all the rituals, fancy buildings and pomp. But unfortunately, some Christians strongly believe in the state and its illegitimate rulers even more than they believe in Jesus. These Christians need to be gently shown the contradictions in their beliefs and that when they advocate for a human ruler, they advocate for the subjugation of themselves and their neighbors. True followers of Jesus should see that Christianity and the cult of statism oppose each other, but Christianity and anarchy are not mutually exclusive.

Larken Rose:

The Most Dangerous Superstition 

YouTube

Candles in the Dark

Facebook

Episode Timestamps:

4:17 – About Larken Rose:

• Taught to doubt and debate ideas from a young age

• Began trying to decide what a legitimate or moral government looks like

• Accidentally fell off the political spectrum

• Realized that 'legitimate government' is an oxymoron

• Government has no special power to rob or legislate

• Assumes people have consciences and can distinguish right from wrong

• That's why he's an anarchist

•  Doesn't care what people say they believe about religion

• How they treat other people matters

• Do they abide by the non-aggression principle?

• If the government disappeared suddenly, Larken would prefer to be around Christian Statists than some atheist anarchists

• They are nicer people without the political monstrosity

• The quality of people matters most

16:09 – What currently ails the world?

• People have been taught to believe that when evil is committed by government authorities, it is no longer evil

• Individuals are tricked into cheering for evil

• Even Hitler, Stalin and Mao

• They fall for the false god

• Because their fears are played on

• Christians gloss over Matthew 20:25-28

• David Bently Hart New Testament Translation

24:33 – How to awaken someone else's inner anarchist

• People know the corruption of government but try not to know at the same time

• Larken Rose asks others to be personal, literal and specific while asking questions about why they need the government

• If they respond, "protect the innocent"

• Larken asks, "If I found a more efficient way to protect the innocent and refuse to pay for police. What should happen to me?"

• They get uncomfortable as Larken asks them to be specific about what should happen.

• They don't want to blurt out the violence of government

• No arguing is required

• Because if they advocate for a government they are advocating violence against peaceful citizens

• Wanting to "help the poor" is no longer fluffy-sounding goodness

• Should only the state have all the guns?

• Candles in the Dark

• No one wants to admit the violence they condone

• They don't dare look at the conflicts in their beliefs

• We need to lead them to the cognitive dissonance

41:36 – Don't do unto others what you don't want them to do unto you 

• Literally every voter does exactly what they don't want the other side to do to them

• Democracy is the best trick tyrants ever came up with

• It makes people mad at each other

• It makes people consent and vote for evil

• Politicians are all feasting together and laughing at your fears

• Did you just enable evil?

• The other bad guy option is irrelevant

• You cheer for your own subjugation

• You victimize everybody when you vote

• Jesus advocated serving others not lording it over them

• The Soviet Union, China and North Korea are all Constitutional Republics and have their own Bill of Rights

• It's wrong to ask someone else to commit evil for you

• Everyone who votes is a hypocrite without knowing it

• They vote for others to do things they know would be wrong if they did it themselves

• They are not going to go door-to-door to rob people to give to the poor

54:39 – Statism is a religion

• It has rituals, ceremonies, grandiose halls, pomp and tradition

• Voting is just choosing your new god

• The pieces of paper are religious texts

• Statism: The Most Dangerous Religion

• Government authority is not a real thing

• Pledging allegiance in churches doesn't happen in other nations

• Vaccines in churches

• It's frustrating to try to talk people out of their programming

• Need to use cult deprogramming tactics

• Belief in government is a cult

• They don't realize they hold a faith

• If people were living in a free society and someone came along and suggested we give them the power to forcibly rob and dominate we would say, 'no'

• But every election comes down to, 'give me power over you and everyone you know'

• People become violent if you dare bash the pledge of allegiance or trample on the flag

• Belief in government is a faith; not practical or logical

• People are trained to pledge loyalty to the authoritarian rulers of the US

• People are horrified if you admit to being unpatriotic

• Some Christians will become more upset when they hear, "I don't believe in government"
  then when they hear, "I don't believe in God"

• Government is what they really believe in

• Sometimes you need to offend people to shake them out of their indoctrination

1:08:28 – Government: The largest gang

• Without government, there would still be bad actors, but they would not be able to marshal the firepower that governments have

• People feel morally obliged to give them their extortion fees 

• All of the governmental power comes from the people they duped

• Taxpayers and enforcers

• Congressmen will not come to try to take your money personally

• They use it to make nuclear warheads and tanks

• Corporations cannot make us buy their products; if they tried, people would wipe them out

• No gang can enslave the population of the US

• Larken Rose is optimistic

• If people start ignoring the government and human rulers, the government is done

• The evil people are way outnumbered by good

• Rulers are just people

1:18:07 - Religion and anarchism are not mutually exclusive

• People can use gods to justify violence against others or as a standard to live by

• Government can never be legitimate, but belief in god is not automatically bad

• Not automatically authoritarian

• Religion has been used in the past to create authoritarian rulers too

• If society's standard is not initiating violence against others, that will allow peaceful co-existence

• It allows friendly discussions on all sorts of topics

• Christians have a reason to identify as anarchists: Jesus Christ

• Christian, who do you pay tribute to? Whom do you ask to save you from your enemies? If its people in Washington, you need to consider who your god is

---

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81. Unmasking the Truth Behind COVID-19 with Jeffrey Hann

About this Episode

In this eye-opening episode of The Bad Roman, we dive deep into the complex world of the COVID-19 pandemic with our guest, Jeffrey Hann, author of the book titled Covid-19 – Short Path to you’ll Own Nothing and You’ll be Happy. Our conversation covers a wide range of subjects that challenge the mainstream narrative, offering valuable insights and thought-provoking discussion points.

We begin by exploring Jeffrey's background, which includes experiences in the military, political analysis, libertarianism, and the rave scene. He shares his unique method of critical thinking, which involves grammar, logic, and rhetoric, and how it has helped him to examine various topics, including climate change and anarchism.

As we discuss the absurd behaviors during the pandemic, such as mask exceptions and social pressure, we question the validity of mask usage and whether they may be doing more harm than good. We also delve into the role of police (aka policy enforcers) in enforcing bad policies and ponder whether we truly live in a free country.

The conversation turns to the controversial mRNA vaccines and the reasons to be suspicious of their rapid development and rollout. We discuss the potential link between vaccines and various health issues, as well as the lack of accountability by those in power.

In exploring the fine line between conspiracy and questioning, we discuss the digital dollar push, potential new viruses, and the possible use of the vaccine as a biological weapon. We then examine who has profited from the pandemic and question whether the government cares more about profits than the long-term health of its citizens.

As we cover the erosion of self-sufficiency and market unpredictability, we touch on the voluntary reporting system of adverse vaccine experiences (VAERS) and the concept of "safe and effective." Finally, Jeffrey shares his understanding of Christ as an anarchist who fought against tyranny and offers insight into his book "COVID-19 to You'll Own Nothing and You'll Be Happy."

Don't miss this fascinating and thought-provoking episode that challenges the status quo and encourages critical thinking on the COVID-19 pandemic and its aftermath.

Jeffrey Hann:

BOOK

WEBSITE: Journalistic Revolution

Episode Timestamps:

1:06 Why Jeffrey is on the show

• Paul Perol

2:00 Jeffrey’s Background

• PLUR (peace, love, unity) in the rave scene

• Military, political analyst, author

• Libertarianism, Ron Paul

5:02 Trivia Method of Critical Thinking

• Grammar, logic, rhetoric

• Climate Change and anarchism

7:24 Writing to Refine Rhetoric

• Jefferies articles

•  19,000-word report on covid in 2022

• Chapter layout and intention

11:36 Critical thinking

• Kerry Baldwin

• Absurd behaviors during covid

• Mask exceptions and social pressure

16:51 Is there a valid case for masks the way most people use them?

• Self-responsibility

• The challenge of using a mask properly

• Mask ratings, sealing, fit, and wear time, proper PPE use

• Could the mask be making you sicker?

• Keeping your hands clean

24:36 Is our food safe/helping keep us healthy?

• Public indoctrination

• Mcdonald’s was open and gyms were closed in Covid

• Defending the cops for enforcing bad policy

• Do we live in a free country?

• People forget very fast

• Gold Fish Mentality

30:18 The Thin Blue Line

• Modern-day redcoats

• Policy enforcers are the boots on the ground violating our rights

• 13th Amendment

• Free of slavery unless convicted of a crime

•  Supreme Court – no obligation to protect and serve

• Public Schools foster blind obedience to authority

35:17 Reasons to be suspicions of the mRNA Vaccine Push

• Gene Therapy

• Hard to find information

37:07 Policy Enforcers, Guns, and State Power

• Do you want the government to have guns?

• 2and Amendment is intended to be a check on the government not citizens

• Government is not static

• Global Tyranny is what we are headed toward

• Was covid a test to see how the global population would react?

• If anyone should not trust the government it’s Christians

• Jesus was killed by the state

44:24 The Vaccine Chaos and Future Health Cautions

• Religious exemptions

• Spike proteins and mRNA vaccine

• Buffalo Bills NFL player Hamlin collapse

• Could it be vaccine related?

• Australia Database

• RSV

53:59 Lack of accountability by those in power

• Arresting Trump for money vs mass murder

• Trump brought us the vaccines

• Liability free with the FDA and government funds

• Ohio Derailment

59:52 The fine line between conspiracy and questioning

• “Man in the middle attacks”

• Information scrubbing

• Is the vaccine a biological weapon

• The digital dollar push

• Has the next virus already been developed?

• Vitamin deficiencies 

• D & C & Zinc

1:11:08 Who profited from the pandemic?

• Pfizer and Moderna stock

• Its connection to members of Congress (most owned stock)

• Fauci patented HIV sequence

• Making money off taxpayer money

1:16:10 Does the government care about your long-term health or profits?

• Vaccine Commercial Marketing

• Vanguard and Black Rock own most of everything we buy

• Seed Oils

• Our food system has been poisoned

• Fresh eggs & meat vs. store-bought

• Increase in the price of eggs

1:23:33 Erosion of self-sufficiency and market unpredictability

• Lack of a unified American Culture

• Are we being infiltrated from within or destroying ourselves?

1:29:11 VAERS

• Voluntary reporting system of adverse vaccine experiences

• What is “safe and effective” — how much time is needed to know

1:35:03 Jeffrey’s Understanding of Christ 

• Jesus was an anarchist

• Against tyranny

• Balenciaga Runway Show

• Stantanism

• Sam Smith's Unholy Performance

• God is a pure source of consciousness

1:43:40 How to find Jeffrey’s book and where to learn more about him

• Book: Covid-19 Short Path to you’ll Own Nothing and You’ll be Happy

• More writing and website: Journalistic Revolution

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55. Is Taxation Slavery? with Patrick Carroll

About this episode

Have you ever wanted to take a Biblical journey through taxes? We are delighted to have Patrick Carroll back on the show today to talk us through an article he shared entitled: Taxation is Slavery: A Biblical Case. Patrick Carroll is a scholar, writer, and teacher of Biblical economic philosophy. He comments on current events from an anarchist perspective in his articles for Fee.org, where he's also involved with the Hazlitt Apprenticeship. Patrick has previously been on our show for episode 16, If You Vote, You Can't Complain, and has contributed multiple articles for syndication on our blog.

In this episode, we go through the Bible together and take a close look at where and when God took clear stands on taxation. What does our Bible study reveal? Taxation makes people into slaves. God never intended for us to have the government man has created. The kingdom of Heaven is upside down, and it is our job to spread His way of peace and love in the world to flip it back.

You learn more about Patrick and connect with him on Twitter, Facebook, and on his blog: The Prudent Navigator.

Episode Timestamps:

2:59 Is taxation slavery?

• Libertarians often say it’s theft, but is it worse than that?

• We need people to think and understand

• Canada is worse/more draconian than the US… at this point

• Most people scoff

• Slavery is when a person is owned by another human

  • Ownership is control of something

  • If we own an object, we can take it anywhere and do whatever we want with it

  • The state gets to decide what drugs we take, how we live our lives…

• We don’t have the brutal 1800’s style of slavery

  • But perhaps a more insidious current form

    • Savings are taxed away

    • Inflation

    • Regulations

    • Military Industrial Complex

    • Prison Complex

    • War on drugs

    • Not as visible, but still there

• The state is good at hiding it

  • But they claim to give us our rights

    • Our rights come from God

      • We’re created with them

6:00 Human government

• 1 Samuel 8

  • The Israelites demand a king 

    • To be like other nations

    • Israelites were supposed to be holy or different from other nations

      • God was supposed to be their King

    • God has Samuel warn them

      • The king will tax you

      • He'll take your children when he wants them

      • You will be his slaves

• “Christians who advocate for human rulers today tend to assume that God is only opposed to unjust rulers.” - Patrick

  • They’ll point to China and say it’s wrong because it’s authoritarian

  • God never says, “Kingship is a good idea, as long as it’s limited.” - Patrick

  • “He says, ‘He’s going to tax you,’ as if that’s inherently wrong.”

• There has never been a human-made government who had everyone’s best interests at heart

• So many in the US believe our government was made by God and is just

  • How can it be from God when it kills so many people and other parts of His creation overseas?

    • So many atrocities

      • From foreign policy to war on drugs

• People argue that we’re being taxed to help the poor

  • Whereas kings only taxed to get rich

  • The government is not helping the poor

  • Jesus didn't give his money to Caesar and ask him to help the poor

    • He told his disciples to do it

    • He modeled how to help

  • Real charity isn't forced

  • There is no instance in Scripture of the government being used to promote general welfare

• The rich’s taxes

  • Many people advocate for raising wealthy people’s taxes

    • Goes against 2/10 Commandments

      • Don’t envy

      • Don’t steal

  • Do the rich have a duty to give to the poor out of their wealth, since they have been given much?

    • Yes, but that doesn't give us the right to force them

  • People get mad because the rich find loopholes through paying taxes

    • If you can find a way around it, do it!

      • Use the money you save to help the poor

• Outsourcing sin

  • Give people power and let them kill the people we don’t like

    • And claim innocence

15:15 Examples from the Old Testament

• Conquered nations paid tribute to the conquering king

  • No longer working for themselves

• Whoever slays Goliath (1 Samuel 17:25)

  • Will be made rich

  • Marry the princess

  • And have his father’s house set free

    • AKA exempt from taxes

    • The Hebrew word used here for “free” is used throughout the Old Testament as the opposite of enslaved

    • “If being set free from slavery is equivalent to not having to pay taxes, then the implication is that having to pay taxes is being a slave.” - Patrick

  • The death of King Solomon (1 Kings 12)

    • The people asked his son for their yoke to be lightened

      • Yoke is often used to talk about slavery

    • Led to tax revolt and division of the kingdom

    • Solomon’s son asked 2 groups of people for advice

      • The elders said to listen to the people, lighten their taxes, and they’ll love you forever and gladly serve you

      • His younger friends advised him to tax even more heavily

        • He listened to them

  • Isaiah 58

    • Isaiah asked that every yoke be broken 

      • Taxation is talked about as a yoke

        • So, shouldn’t we want it to be broken and the oppressed set free?

21:21 We are not just oppressed; we are slaves

• Not because the government is unjust

  • Even if they were just, they don’t have the right to tell us how to live

• I should be able to choose whether or not I live under the government

• Everyone knows the black community was enslaved

  • Also, the Irish

  • But they say we are free

• If you have to ask permission to be free, you are a slave

• Christians should walk away

  • We have one King

  • He did not establish these earthly governments

  • Follow Jesus Christ

• Our current system will never change

  • We can’t keep doing the same thing and expect different results

  • Even if one guy lowers our taxes, the next might not

  • It’s not working

  • We have to walk away

• “Understand that, to the extent that we participate in government, we are complicit in enslaving our neighbors.” - Patrick

  • Being police officers or in the military subjugates other citizens

    • Those officers take an oath to defend citizens from enemies foreign or domestic

      • If they really did that, they'd be protecting us from politicians

        • Not from the agents they sent in to pretend to attack the capitol

      • Definition of terrrorism: “The [unlawful] violence and intimidation that is used normally against civilians for political ends”

        • Had to add “unlawful” so police could intimidate

  • Voluntary society security

    • Not violent and intimidating

    • Run by the market, not politicians

      • Without police and military, politicians are nothing but people with bad ideas

    • Private security guards already outnumber our police force

28:30 New Testament Examples

• We are Jesus-centric here

• Matthew 17

  • Rulers do not tax their sons; only citizens

    • The sons are free

    • Israelites are sons of God

      • Therefore should not have to pay the temple tax

  • The most literal translation of the word for free is “not slaves”

    • Implying that those who pay taxes are slaves

  • Jesus got this across by asking Peter questions

    • He always made people think

32:00 Nehemiah (chapters 5 and 9)

• Israel living under foreign rule

• They took out loans on their fields to pay their taxes

  • Now, they owed interest

  • Their children were enslaved

  • They were powerless because they owned nothing

• Nehemiah became a governor

  • Did not lay a heavy burden

    • Because he feared God

    • He saw taxing people too heavily as problematic

33:18 What constitutes too heavy of a tax?

• Our taxes are much higher than most ancient times

• The American Revolution was fought over what we would now call a very low tax rate

• The point is, any level of tax means subjugation and theft

34:03 Israelites’ plea to God

• They are slaves in the land He gave them to enjoy

• All the fruits go to the king God put over them as punishment

• The kings ruled their bodies and livestock

• Some say they would not have been slaves if they were ruled by an Israelite

  • The line between foreigners and neighbors is not always clear

  • Christians are foreigners in all nations

35:37 1 Peter 2

• In Greek, “human institution/authority” is really “human creation”

  • Governments are manmade

  • God set up priests

    • Government was not something He wanted to be a part of His creation

• Jeremiah 27

  • Submit to your punishment of kings ruling

  • Romans 13

  • Doesn’t mean the empire is just

    • In Isaiah, God uses Assyria to punish Israel

      • But also punishes Assyria for their arrogance

38:55 Obedience vs submission

• Rosa Parks submitted, but didn’t obey

• You don’t have to obey if the law is unjust

  • But you have to submit to the consequences

• Submission is a general attitude; obedience is on a law-by-law basis

• Plenty of Biblical examples of people disobeying the law and being deemed righteous

• If man’s law breaks God’s, we follow God’s

• Many realized Caesar’s rule was illegitimate and wanted to overthrow it

  • Paul wrote Romans 13 in response

  • Violence is not the way of the Kingdom

• Live as people who are free

  • But don’t use your freedom to sin

41:44 Can a real anarchist pay taxes?

• “I’m not paying taxes; I’m avoiding jail.” - Larkin Rose

• They steal them without my consent from my paycheck

• I want to stay out of jail and spread the Kingdom

• Romans 12:18

  • “Be at peace with everyone.”

• Paul’s number one priority was to get the Gospel out there

  • If paying taxes is going to make some people view you more positively, do it

  • If we’re going around causing trouble, even if it’s justified, it’s not going to make people view us in a positive light

• Peter told actual slaves to stay with their masters and serve them well

  •  In order to possibly win their souls

  • 1 Peter 2:18

44:18 Civil disobedience

• Not revolution

  • Even if you win, there’s still somebody in charge who uses violence to get what they want

• MLK and his people did it right

  • No fighting back

• Christians should be disobeying and taking the punishment when laws are garbage

46:37 Why we’re anarchists

• We see governments behaving just as God warned us they would

• They want us to respond with violence

  • That’s not how you teach about Jesus

• We make change by promoting the Kingdom of Christ peacefully

• Obey God rather than man

  • Acts 5:29

• The 2 greatest commandments (Matthew 22:36-40)

  • Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength

  • Love your neighbor as yourself

  • “If a law is passed that gets in the way of me loving my neighbor, I will disobey that law.” - Patrick

49:30 How to make change

• Talk about it

• Preach about it

• Help people understand we are being enslaved

• Matthew 20:20-28

  • We live in an upside-down Kingdom

  • We should be turning people’s worldviews upside down

---

Related Episodes

Related Blog Post

51. Jesus the Anarchist with Alexandre Christoyannopoulos and Nicholas Harrelson

In this episode, Alexandre Christoyannopoulos, author of Christian Anarchism, Tolstoy's Political Thought, and Essays in Anarchism and Religion, joins your host Craig Harguess alongside our beloved Bad Roman contributor, Nicholas Harrelson, from across the pond. He literally wrote the book on Christian anarchism. Alex is French and Greek, he is from Belgium and has lived in the UK since 1997. He holds a BA in economics, a MA in international relations and European studies, and a Ph.D. in politics and religion. He has studied all the major thinkers in anarchism and written several academic publications, which you can (and should) explore on his website.

In addition to being an expert scholar on Christian Anarchy, Alex is a teacher, lecturer, and Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy. On the show, he shares what he has learned, about Jesus and Anarchy and how we can better examine our own philosophy on the topic.

The episode is a wide-ranging conversation that covers everything from pacifism and turning the other cheek to Romans 13 and the many strains of anarchism – how we can all work together? Was Jesus really an anarchist?

EPISODE TIMESTAMPS:

2:15 Alex’s Timeline

• Did not start off life religious

• Grew up in Belgium with Greek and French parents

• Went to uni in England

• Near the end of his MA, developing curiosity in religion

  • Literally finished his degree as 9/11 happened

  • Decided to pursue Ph.D. in the relationship between religious and political structures

    • Started studying what Jesus said

    • Then found Tolstoy

      • Changed Ph.D. to his political/religious philosophy

      • Tolstoy takes Jesus literally and applies His teaching to the state

      • But there are gaps

        • He ignores Paul

        • He doesn’t address “render unto Caesar”

    • Went down the rabbit hole of other writers about Jesus and politics

    • Wound up with a thesis on Christian Anarchism

      • Goal: to take what others have said about Jesus’ political views and weave them together

7:52 Craig’s Timeline

10:36 Interpreting Scripture leads to anarchy

• You can make the Bible support almost any point you make

  • But it’s pretty clear and consistent on love and non-violence

    • Turning the other cheek is what sets Christianity apart

    • The cross is an example of love and forgiveness even unto death

  • It’s often the rejection of violence that leads to the rejection of the state

    • Christianity, if followed consistently, means rejecting violence

      • The state is violent

      • The state causes citizens to be violent

      • It claims a monopoly on “legal/good” violence

  • The average Christians firmly believe we need to infiltrate the state

    • “There’s no evidence of Jesus using the state to promote His message of peace.” - Craig

15:00 Nick’s Timeline

• Liberal

• Southerner, patriotic

• Military: 2 tours in Iraq, wounded, many friends committed suicide after

• Worked in the senate 3 years

• Came to pacifism from reading Tolstoy

  • Reconciled Christianity with his new view on the world

• Recognized the state runs on coercion and violence

  • “I came to realize that, to remain consistent, I had to probably be an anarchist as well.” - Nick

• Identified with Tolstoy’s military experience

• Sunday Christians

  • “It’s like we go into a church and turn on this mindset, and then we leave the church and think nothing of it for the rest of the week.” - Nick

  • Tolstoy offered consistency

18:08 Following the Early Church

• “Not everything that can be done through the state has to rely on violence in order to achieve anything, but a lot of it does. A lot of laws ultimately rely on the threat of violence.” - Alex

• The Early Church had nothing to do with Rome

  • Some of them knew Jesus

    • Maybe we should follow their example

• It’s risky and uncertain to go against the status quo

24:19 Anarchism vs Christian Anarchism

• In anarchism, there is a spectrum from very confrontational to strictly non-confrontational

• Christian spectrum

  • From turning over the tables to turning the other cheek

• But we must resist evil, even if we cannot use violence

27:20 Turning the other cheek

• Not passive action

• Surprises attacker

• Makes observers question who is in the right

• Gives you the higher moral ground

• Clearly communicates that you do not approve of what the attacker is defending

30:01 Violence or Pacifism? 

• Martin Luther King Jr. followed in the way of Gandhi

• “You’re going to push the state away a lot quicker by being non-violent because the state only understands violence.” - Craig 

• A lot of people have emulated Gandhi and had peaceful movements of resistance

• A study was done in 2011 compared different campaigns against oppression,

  • Nonviolent ones were twice as effective 

  • and more likely to last peacefully after the oppressors had been defeated

  • All fights against oppression are more likely to fail than succeed

• Reacting violently pulls the enemy together against you

  • Non-violence might cause some of the people involved to question what they're doing

• Martin Luther King jr. learned a lot about his nonviolent tactics from Gandhi

  • C.S. Lewis would argue that all truths point towards God

  • Gandhi was a fan of Jesus but didn't like the way Christians were living

  • Dr. King learned a lot about how Jesus lived and taught from a non-Christian

• A lot of Christians take inspiration from Tolstoy

  • but they're afraid to admit it

  • He's an "awkward Christian" because he doesn't hold to some theological views

• “Go back to the source– as in picking up the Bible, reading it and thinking, ‘Well, this is more radical than they tell us every Sunday.’” - Alex

• Anabaptists and Catholic Workers are good current examples of peaceful radicals

41:15 Jesus and Paul

• Simplify. Focus on Jesus.

  • Theology gets so messy and confusing

  • We are not followers of Paul

  • If Jesus was really the son of God and rose from the dead, shouldn't we view him as the most important person to follow?

• Romans 13

  • The chapter on obeying government

  • Addressed in Alex's book

  • Maybe an exegesis on The Sermon on the Mount

  • Must be read In the context of chapter 12

  • Nick's sermon

44:17 Anarchist societies

• Monastic orders

• The Benedict Option

  • Communities that defy the state simply by ignoring it

• Tolstoy believed that Jesus’ orders were not to become separate from the world but to live within it

  • To be different, maybe even “awkward”

    •  but not withdrawn

  • The Catholic Workers have a community in rural areas

    • but hospitality houses in urban places

48:19 Anarcho-capitalism?

• A hot potato topic

• Most anarchists believe that their ideals push people toward mutual aid

  • Capitalism is fundamentally against that

    • It’s about competition

    • And individual land ownership

      • Which, at the end of the day, requires some sort of police force to enforce

      • What happens when your accumulation of land starts to be to the detriment of others?

52:34 Secular versus Christian anarchists

• Often work together just fine

  • Usually, there's some line drawn

    • Won’t work with violent groups

    • Won’t work with capitalists

• Some anarchists can't stand the idea of having Christ as King

  • They won't even ally themselves with Christian anarchists

• Craig: Why do we allow labels and divisions? There’s bigger fish to fry.

  • “We have the same goals: to see the state go away and to live our life peacefully.” - Craig

    • They don’t have to have Christ as King in order to be allies

• Many anarchists say you must revoke religion to join

  • Because there must be no authority

  • Others just say we must be against the state

• Christians reject the state for 2 general reasons

  • Violence

  • Idolatry

  • Some people say rejecting the state is not enough to call yourself an anarchist

• What everyone can agree on

  • We're against domination

• Most anarchists find themselves passionate about connected issues

  • These are not necessarily addressed in the Gospels

    • But anarchists see them as essential

      • And get upset if others don’t

• “Keep it simple, Stupid” - Craig

1:03:17 People's entrances into anarchism

• From different political sides

• Different religious views

• Different economic philosophies

• Everyone takes small steps 

• Maybe instead of getting mad at people for thinking differently, we should just be patient

  • Maybe they'll eventually learn

  • No need to scream in horror at the very notion of anarcho-capitalism

  • “[If] it's an avenue through which people come your way, then don't close it.” - Alex

1:06:27 Ideological Scale

• Communism emphasizes equality over freedom

• Capitalism/liberalism emphasizes freedom over equality

• Anarchism tries to hold both in equal importance

  • Defends against both communism and capitalism

  • But who will take care of the vulnerable?

    • With great freedom comes great responsibility

      • We should use our freedom to help

1:09:21 Liturgical versus Protestant Christian Antichrists

•  Most come from Protestant backgrounds

  • They are encouraged to read and interpret scriptures for themselves

1:14:48 The first Jewish government

• 1 Samuel 8

  • The Jews choose a state instead of God

  • When Jesus comes, they expect Him to rule according to the type of government they had demanded

    •  rather than the type of rule they had before there were kings in Israel

  • Satan tries to give Jesus a kingdom, 

    • but he already had a Kingdom  

    • He didn't want the earthly one Satan offered

1:16:30 God uses the state

• Something that He wishes we rejected, but He still uses nonetheless

  • Despite what’s evil or problematic about it

• This doesn’t mean we do everything the state demands

• Pay your taxes

  • But give everything else to God

• God wants us to have faith in Him rather than the state

• Follow Jesus’ example rather than the state’s demands when they conflict

• Everything warned about in Samuel, our US government is doing

• “Why are you going to put these people in power when you've already got a king? The best king of all?” - Craig

1:19:40 Were Jesus and the Early Church truly anarchists?

• Yes…

• But the term “anarchist” didn’t exist back then

• And the Roman Empire was different from our form of government

• Answer expounded on in this The Stockholm University Press publication (go directly to the chapter discussed)

• It gets complicated 

• … but yes

1:22:25 Plugs

• List of Publications

• Free Version of Christian Anarchism

• Email

Recommend starting with Christian Anarchism to get a general understanding

---

Related Episodes

50. Changing Hearts: Heal, Develop, Share with David Gornoski

David Gornoski is the host of the radio show A Neighbor’s Choice –a show that looks at politics, science, and culture through the lens of Jesus’ personhood revolution. In this episode, David shares his strategy for changing the direction of the world. If we want to see political change, we must change the hearts of the citizens. In order to do this, we must imitate Jesus. On his radio show and also on his online exclusive podcast and film series, THINGS HIDDEN, David has interviewed personalities like Ron Paul, Jordan Peterson, and Slavoj Žižek.

David has also written multiple essays and columns promoting Jesus’ nonviolent ethos and personhood revolution for publications such as DailyCaller, Townhall, American Conservative, and FEE. David’s shows provide a look at current events through the lens of anthropology and imitating what Christ really did while He was on Earth. His YouTube channel is currently banned for “speaking too much truth” (something we Christian-anarchist know all too well).

After listening you will have a new understanding of how we can help lead people away from the state and to Christ by healing, developing new technologies, and sharing victims’ stories.

EPISODE TIMESTAMPS:

3:05 Jesus changed history

• The last shall be first and the first shall be last

  • In His day, the elite got the place of honor at the amphitheater

    • Today, disabled people get the place of honor in the theater 

      • No one dares take those seats, even if the theater’s packed

  • Groups are now vying to be seen as the least

    • BLM, StopAsianHate, women

    • Gun owners vs gun violence victims

    • Right vs left

  • Who are the victims and who are the monsters?

  • I desire mercy, not sacrifice

    • People these days try to show mercy with sacrifice

      • I will give you this medicine for free, but if you don't take it, you will be excluded from society 

  • “Everybody's vying for the perks of being the most supreme martyr.” - David

    • They want to stick their face in the hole of the painting the cross like tourists do

    • “Jesus said the stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. Meaning, in the act of being perceived to be rejected, you gain power and that power can be used for good or evil.” - David

  • They convinced Americans that we needed to be in Afghanistan to help women become empowered 

    • “It's disturbing to me how Christians will buy into this narrative to we're helping these folks by dropping bombs on their children.” -Craig

      • “We’re helping them, but we have to kill them first.” -Craig

  • Sometimes atheists act more Christ-like than Christians

    • They get it from somewhere

      • Jesus’ influence permeates the world

      • Loving one’s neighbor or enemy were not concepts in the world when Jesus was on Earth or before

12:37 Government & Politics

• To fix stuff, we need to change people's minds about the state by loving our enemies and caring for our neighbors

  • Thus exposing the government for not doing it

• “The government is almost like a curse for when a society becomes decadent and stupid, and it doesn't know how to police itself.” - David

• Which came first? Corrupt government or corrupt society?

• No matter who you are, you are part of society and part of the political system

• Parties

  •  Libertarian

    • Fight about everything, fiercely

    • No unity

  • Democrats

    • We're going to take your stuff and do whatever we want with it

    • and we will tell you that to your face

  • Republicans

    • We will do the same as the Democrats, but try to hide it

• Libertarianism and anarchism are like supplements 

  • When you don't have Jesus Himself, you take vitamin pills of His philosophy 

  • They're like a malnourished form of Christianity

    • “Libertarianism and Anarchism only exist because there's a malnourished form of Christianity that's dominant in the culture.” - David

16:32 Christianity

• People get defensive against the American version of Christianity… because it's not true Christianity!

  • People take more of Decartes’ approach

    • I think I am ___, therefore I am 

    • Also apply other religions/ways of thinking’s approach to their Christian religion

  • Spreading American Christianity is like telling a young black person that if they believe in the stories they're told about MLK, then they can benefit from what he did

    • We all benefit from him, even those of us who don't know he existed

  • Jesus is the King of the world. He has an effect on everyone. 

    • It doesn’t start when we believe the exact formula our sect says we must

• Paul

  • “God didn't want him to kill those people. So the God that he was serving didn't exist.” - David

  • He quoted a Greek play when telling the Greeks his conversion story

    •  From Bacchae

      • The people put the god Dionysis on trial as if they had authority over him, just as Jesus was put on trial when He's the ruler of the universe

      • However, instead of destroying his enemies, Jesus submitted to them quietly and then showed Saul (Paul) love instead of punishing him

23:18 To make the state irrelevant

• We have to change people's hearts by imitating Christ

• I don’t want to call myself an anarchist anymore; I’m just telling people I’m a Christian -Craig

  • I’m an anarchist because I’m a Christian

    • No King but Christ

    • I imitate Jesus, who was not involved with the state!

      •  Are we not going to imitate Jesus?

  • Polycarp

    • Honor the government unless it does us harm

      • What do they do that doesn’t bring someone harm?

• Our message must stay consistent

  • No King but Christ means we don’t follow to the state

    • Counterargument: If the state does exist, it can be used to move things in the right direction

      • There’s good teachers in a bad school

      • People make friends in concentration camps

• Is voting violence?

  • Most of the time, yes

  • But voting for Ron Paul might not have been

  • People want to vote for more liberty

    • Legalize… liberty?

      • “Dude… you’ve already got liberty.” -Craig

      • Don’t force me into your vision of liberty by law

    • You cannot gain liberty through force

29:43 So, what does it look like to bring about liberty by changing hearts?

• Love your neighbor, and everything else will fall into place

  • How? 

    • How do we love triple-maskers who want us to behave like them?

    • What does it look like to love someone who wants the vaccine to be required for you to go to the store and feed your family?

    • or the people who want you to hate yourself for your gender or skin color?

  • Ask real questions

    • Do you want to force people to get the vaccine?

      • No, but they should be pushed to

        • Pushed how?

        • Pushed by vaccine passports

        • How would the passports be enforced?

          • It’s force

  • Imitate Jesus

    • He was healing people all the time

    • He asked people questions to get them to think

    • To heal:

      • Find cures for major diseases

      • People are dependent on the state to heal them

        • Nutrition science is funded by the state

      • Scientists and doctors believe that 90% of diseases or disappear if we stopped eating vegetable oils

        • Most olive oils are corrupted, but it's not on their labels

        • They sneak vegetable oil into everything, even products that say they're made with olive oil or  something else

        • If a fat guy and a skinny guy eat the same amount of food

          • The difference is how their body processes vegetable oils

          • The fat guy's body stores it

          • The skinny guys runs it as fuel

            • Can cause autoimmune disorders

      • Set aside Wednesday services for health education

      • Therapeutic Ketosis

      • Prison reduced omega-6

        • Antisocial violent tendencies reduced

      • Heal your neighbors’ chronic health problems so when they get COVID, they won't get deathly ill

  • After we heal them physically, they might start to wonder what other lies the government has fed them

  • People around the healthy start to ask what they’re doing to prevent disease in their family

42:10 More health tips

• Carbs are inflammatory

• Vegetable oils are in our pork and chicken fat because they feed them grain

  • The meat becomes high in PUFAs

    • polyunsaturated fatty acids

  • They get extra fat

• Fatty acids are unstable and were never meant to be our fuel

  • 5 tablespoons of corn oil = 96 ears of corn

  • It’s toxic, but they find ways to deodorize it

• If you try to avoid it, it’s in EVERYTHING

  • Burgers, buns, ice cream, cookies, crackers

    • A little sugar treat is fine; just make sure you’re not also eating seed oils

• Government-funded healthcare cannot fix what government-funded nutrition science broke

  • They’re pushing the anti-meat agenda with their “experts”

    • They tell people they can lessen their guilt by eating vegan

      • Vegetarian choices kill more animals than meat options

        • Wildlife is displaced and killed to make room for fields

49:00 Technology to reduce scarcity

• Not only expose people to myths about war and food

• Provide alternative energy sources

  • Low-temperature nuclear energy

    • Small, maybe neighborhood-sized

    • Won’t explode because it’s not hot, no high pressure

  • 24/7 solar panels

    • All over the house that harvests intermittent energy

  • Elemental transmutation

  • Not funded by taxpayer dollars

  • Disrupt the Middle Eastern oil deal

51:57 Government narratives

• The planet is dying; we’re the only ones who can save you

  • If we have our own energy, we’ll be more capable of surviving

• We’re the only place you can afford to get health care

  • Depend on each other and work hard

  • Learn the truth about your health

54:35 The heart of a child

• Full of wonder and imagination

• Freely loving

• Jesus didn’t listen to institutions

• Tesla got his alternative form of electricity into the world through the market

• Challenge orthodoxy

56:51 Why this isn’t happening

• Churches are afraid to step out and look quacky

• Or people know someone who’s involved in the seed oil industry

• Afraid to get involved in political issues

57:54 Tell stories of victims

• Step 1: Heal

• Step 2: Outcompete the government monopolies

• Step 3: Personalize

  • Don’t just try to convince their mind

  • Irwin Schiff 

    • Wrote books on tax evasion

    • Chained as if he posed a physical threat on his deathbed

  • Kids with dads arrested for victimless crimes

    • Cry every night

    • Grades suffer 

    • Performance in and enjoyment of activities go down

  • Just as the Gospel writers told the story of an innocent victim

1:03:35 Plugs

• Aneighborschoice.com

• Email

• Podcast

• Banned from YouTube; interview with Bob Murphy

---

Related Episodes

49. Anyone Can Be Evil with Abby Cleckner

In this episode, we are joined by long-time Bad Roman contributor, Abby Cleckner, to discuss her article from July 2020, Never Follow Orders. We are all capable of horrible things. With this knowledge in mind, It is important that each of us take responsibility for our actions, consider carefully why we are doing what we do, and don’t blame those in authority over us for our actions.

Studies have proven that the majority of people will do anything, even harm another person, if someone in authority demands or instructs them to.

Understanding that we are all susceptible to committing atrocities if we find ourselves in positions of power or under the command of those with power, enables us to be honest about the consequences of allowing individuals and organizations to acquire too much of it.

When we deny that we are capable of doing horrible things, we erroneously begin to respect the authority of another person more than that of God’s or our own values.

Abby Cleckner has contributed several articles to our blog and is now co-host for The Bad Roman Podcast! This episode was recorded before she accepted that position. You can find her on Facebook and Instagram. 

Episode Timestamps:

2:46 People are submitting to the government as if nothing bad has ever come of it

People forget things... One trip around the fishbowl, and they’re done.

There was a time in this country when people would say, ‘You can’t do that! This is America.’ You can’t say that anymore.

- Craig

4:40 The next generation

• As schools have become even more prison-like

  • Perhaps the next generation will protect their children from a similar experience

8:19 Connection between The Nuremberg Trials, The Key Takeaways of the Milgram Experiment & Vietnam Draft Objectors

• The Nazis were the ones on trial

  • Following orders is not an excuse for committing atrocities

• Most used the defense: “I was just following orders”

• Dr. Milgram wondered if the average person was susceptible to would join a movement like the Nazis? How was it that there were so many people involved? 

  • The majority of people think Nazis were unusually evil, and that they themselves would never do such crimes, under any orders.

• Milgram’s experiment provided evidence that a statistically significant amount of people are likely to carry out actions, that they may personally question, upon instruction from an authority figure.

  • “The draw to follow authority is so much more powerful than we realize.”

• In the Vietnam War Draft, one man refused to fight because of what he had learned from being part of the Milgram experiment.

Almost anyone would follow almost any order to harm someone.

- Abby, on what the Millgram Experiemnt can teach us

11:40 “Just doing their job”

• This is how we excuse police brutality

• They take an oath to the Constitution

  • and then they don't follow the Constitution; they follow orders

  • Politicians make unconstitutional laws, and the police enforce them without question

12:12 The Milgram Experiment explained

• A test to see how applicable the Nuremberg Defense is

  • How many people would do anything they were told and claim it was good because they were following orders?

  • How far would the average person go?

• The setup

  • People were told they were part of an experiment to test how punishment affects performance

    • An actor on the other side of the wall pretended to be receiving worse and worse electric shocks as they failed to perform the task

    • The participant had to push a button to administer the shocks and turn up the dial as time went on

    • Eventually, the actor starts begging to quit

    • Then they start yelling and banging on the walls

    • and then they go silent

  • Most people stopped at some point and asked if they should continue because the other person seemed to be in distress

    • The people running the experiment convinced them that it was very important that they finish the trial

  • 65% of people went all the way to the end 

    • They were willing to kill a stranger

      • Just because another stranger told them to

• Everybody thinks they'd be in the 35% who would never do that

  • That's why it's so important to know about this experiment

  • You likely wouldn't be

    • Unless we’re aware of our tendencies and consciously choose to stand up

  • It's not necessarily bad that everyone naturally follows authority

    • It keeps society running smoothly when every person isn't constantly fighting back 

16:10 The point of her article

• In every small decision, we make every day, we must ask ourselves:

  • Do I believe in this?

  • Am I only doing this because somebody told me to? 

  • How would I explain my actions to someone else?

• Take ownership of your actions

  • It is your fault, even if someone in authority ordered you to do that

• “The problem isn't the police; they're just doing their job.”

  • Police not taking responsibility is the problem

    • Yes, the politicians making bad laws is a problem, but it really wouldn't be if the people under them made their own decisions and refused to carry out orders

  • The everyday officers are the ones taking action

18:44 Christians are no better 

• Christians are willing to follow authority, even if it's harmful to someone

  • Conversation with Eloquilt will be available Feb 10, 2022

  • Politicians steal, murder, and commit all kinds of sins

    • Voting them into office is sort of like asking them to commit those sins for you

Christian culture puts authority on a pedestal

• We are taught to train our children to “respect” authority at all times

• Romans 13 spouters

  • If someone's in authority, it's because God put them there, so we have to do whatever they say

  • People quote this first and then run away before they have to defend it

Christians are kind of obsessed with authority.

- Abby

If these guys are in power because God put them there, and they're not following the laws of God, we're not supposed to obey that just because they're in power

- Craig

• People misread scripture as an easy way out

  • If you have to do whatever the authority tells you and you don't have to make difficult decisions, then you don't have to deal with the consequences or guilt.

• A common theme in the Bible is to disobey authority in order to follow God

• If you vote for someone you don't like just because you hate the other person

  • That doesn't actually make sense  

  • That's voting out of fear, not because there's someone good

    • Any decision made out of fear should be reconsidered 

23:00 He made me do it!

• Take responsibility for your actions

• Recognize that nobody can make you have an emotion

  •  or take an action

  •  or say certain words

• Practice with the small, everyday decisions

24:27 The soap opera of politics

They put in an older version of Trump

You've been told you won, so you're happy. Or you've been told you're who you lost, so you're mad.

- Abby

Nothing has changed or will change with the state.

- Craig

27:09 Muhammad Ali

• Refused the draft for Vietnam

• A lot of people called him a coward, but he went to prison for his convictions

  • Gave up his career

  • Lost his title

• Military Drafts

  • Governments forcing citizens to fight their wars

  • Why don't the leaders just duke it out?

    • Saddam Hussein offered to duel George Bush Sr.

      • He asked, why get all these people involved?

Why do thousands or millions of people have to die for problems between politicians?

- Abby

31:00 Martin Luther King Jr.

• No violence, but also no obedience

• If we live as a community and take care of each other, we can just ignore the government because we won't need anything they have to offer

  • If everyone ignores them, they will become obsolete and lose power

  • A community can provide much better than the government because they can see exactly what you need and not just give you the standard package

Everything the government does is] to increase their power. Nothing they do is benevolence or the kindness of their own heart.

- Abby

• People are getting vaccinated so they can have the freedom to travel

  • That is not freedom!

• When you see someone getting sprayed with a fire hose, and they respond calmly, you want to join them because obviously, what they're doing has meaning and a quiet power

  • The aggressor wasn't those seeking freedom; it was the state

  • The Kingdom of God is upside down like that

    • It gets power from love and non-violence

      • Not money and might

36:40 Making choices at work

I have to do things I don't agree with that work because they're paying me, but I'll raise a stink about it first and tell them why I think it's wrong and demand that they explain why it's not.

- Craig

To an extent. If I disagree with how we're getting something done, I'll still do the task the way they taught me. 

For every decision I make sure, I consciously decide what I'm going to do for myself, I have to acknowledge that I am the one making the choice, and there is still a point at which I draw the line in the sand and refuse.

 You have to recognize the strong inner pull to follow authority and practice questioning it. Recognize that you're not harmless and that you could be talked into doing horrible things.

- Abby

39:32 The government unicorn

• Most people agree that politicians are evil

  • But they still think the government is good

    • How is this possible when the government is made up of politicians?

    • People in it do horrible things, but the unicorn of government as a whole is good? 

• People think if they believe hard enough in the unicorn, things will work out in the end

• The unicorn does not exist!

Let's talk about what actually exists. What you fully admit you hate and is harming you personally. That's what the government is. It's not this unicorn that you imagined.

- Abby

• People believe that if the correct letter is by someone's name, then they have everything right because the other side is completely wrong.

• Many people on the right have an innate sense of not wanting politicians to tell them what to do

  • But at the same time, they 

    • back the blue 

    • support the troops

    • believe in authority

    • Live with strong cognitive dissonance

• People on the left see the government almost as God

  •  Someone who will provide & be benevolent

• Both tribes are cruel to the other side

42:35 The Bad Romans

• We want people who are on the fence to listen

  •  Who agree with 75% of what we say

• People need to just start thinking logically about the world

  •  About how,

    • economics work

    • government's involvement affects us

    • people's rights

• If people start off focusing on their personal responsibility, the rest will follow

  • We should never, ever tell someone else how they are allowed to live, 

    • even if our philosophy is truly better 

    • even if they’re living as a slave

  • You don't necessarily know what's best for someone else

    • God's will for them might not be what you expect and no one has perfect theology

• You're probably have changed your opinion many times 

  • So will other people

  • Don't come down on them too harshly

    • This is using your intellectual authority to make people feel stupid 

    • In the Kingdom of Heaven, we leave space for their hearts to heal

  • We didn't get where we are overnight 

• If people see us being kind, it might Inspire them to stick around

49:00 The empire will fall soon; we must be ready

• We need to come together as a voluntary society so we can take care of each other

  • Working towards a change in politicians is not going to help us, because power can corrupt even the most idealistic person

• Stanford Prison Experiment

They knew full well, it was an experiment and you were randomly chosen to be a guard or a prisoner, but yeah, their, their authoritarianism just got very quickly, really out of control.

- Abby

• We've got to move away from our cruel human nature end towards the heart of Christ

  • God created us all good

    •  But we easily end up in bondage, especially to the love of power

    • We need to be aware and on guard, because we are all capable of horrible things

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