113. From Mormon LDS to Freedom in Christ: Unveiling Lies in Medicine, Government, and Religion

About this Episode

In this episode of the Bad Roman podcast, host Craig Harguess speaks with Claire Dalton, the host of the Clarity podcast. Claire shares her journey of leaving the LDS Church, her battle with chronic Lyme disease, and her views on the influence of government and institutional corruption. This episode explores faith, freedom, and the pursuit of truth, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of these issues.

Claire begins by discussing her background, including her upbringing in Utah within the mainstream LDS Church. She delves into the cultural and religious environment she grew up in and the factors that led her to question and eventually leave the LDS Church. Claire also shares her professional experiences as a farmer, nonprofit president, and sales representative, explaining how these roles have shaped her perspectives and contributed to her current projects.

A significant portion of the conversation addresses common misconceptions about Mormonism, particularly the belief that polygamy is a central tenet of the faith. Claire provides historical context and evidence to challenge these mainstream LDS teachings, arguing that the original teachings of Joseph Smith did not endorse polygamy. She also highlights the experiences of those who leave the LDS Church to follow Christ, differentiating them from those who leave religion entirely, and discusses the importance of creating platforms to share their stories.

Claire's personal and family struggles with chronic Lyme disease are another focal point of the episode. She details the symptoms, misdiagnoses, and the long journey to finding the correct diagnosis for both herself and her mother. The conversation delves into the controversial origins of Lyme disease, including theories about government involvement and bioweapon experiments. Claire discusses the historical context, such as Operation Paperclip and the release of weaponized ticks, and criticizes the medical system for its inability to properly diagnose and treat chronic illnesses like Lyme disease. She shares her journey of seeking alternative treatments and emphasizes the importance of partnering with God for healing.

The episode also explores the influence of government and institutional corruption. Claire argues that government control has infiltrated numerous sectors, including the food industry, education, the medical system, and even religious institutions. She provides examples of how this corruption manifests and its effects on society. Claire argues that statism is inherently satanic, highlighting how government control contradicts Christian teachings and discussing the importance of recognizing and resisting this influence to live a life aligned with Christ's teachings.

Faith and freedom are central themes throughout the episode. Claire and Craig emphasize the significance of the message "No King but Christ" in contemporary Christianity, discussing how this principle guides their lives and the importance of prioritizing Christ over state and institutional allegiances. Claire shares her vision for creating authentic Christian communities that are not bound by traditional church structures, advocating for home churches and genuine fellowship centered around Christ's teachings.

Listeners will gain insights into the personal and spiritual challenges faced by those who leave the LDS Church and seek to follow Christ. They will learn about the controversial origins of Lyme disease, the failures of the medical system, and the importance of seeking alternative treatments. The episode also provides an understanding of the influence of government in various aspects of life and its implications for personal freedom and societal well-being. Finally, listeners will discover the importance of prioritizing Christ over state and institutional allegiances and the value of building authentic Christian communities.

This episode explores the intersections of faith, health, and societal structures, providing listeners with insights and encouraging them to question and explore their own beliefs and experiences. Claire's storytelling, combined with Craig's questions, makes this a valuable listen for anyone interested in the complexities of faith, freedom, and truth.

Connect with Claire Dalton:

• The Clarity Podcast on YouTube

• Claire Dalton's website

• Follow Claire on social media: Facebook @forgedinhisfire and Instagram @forgedinhisfire

Episode Timestamps:

Timestamps:

1:04 Guest Introduction

• Claire Dalton shares her background: raised in Utah, former LDS member, farmer, nonprofit president, and sales representative.

• Claire's journey from mainstream LDS to her current faith and projects.

2:22 Entanglement of Churches with the State

• Discussion on how the events of 2020 revealed the deep entanglement of many churches with the state.

• Claire's observations on the disillusionment of many Christians with their churches during this period.

1:41 Claire's Personal Journey

• Claire's story of leaving the LDS church and starting her podcast.

• The importance of sharing stories of those who leave the LDS church to follow Christ.

5:28 Misconceptions about Mormonism 

• Claire addresses common misconceptions about Mormonism, including the belief that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy.

• Historical evidence and personal beliefs that challenge mainstream LDS teachings on polygamy.

26:35 The Impact of Chronic Illness

• Claire's personal and family experiences with chronic Lyme disease.

• The political and controversial history of Lyme disease, including its origins and the government's role.

30:18 Critique of the Medical System

• Discussion on the failures of the medical system to address chronic illnesses effectively.

• The role of vaccines and other medical interventions in exacerbating health issues.

53:04 Statism and Its Influence

• Claire and Craig discuss the pervasive influence of statism in various aspects of life, including food, education, and healthcare.

• The idea that statism is inherently satanic and contrary to Christian teachings.

59:20 Closing Remarks

• Seek the truth and question the systems they are part of

• The importance of community and supporting those who are chronically ill or marginalized.

• Craig and Claire reflect on the importance of living out Christian values authentically

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98. The Devil’s Lettuce: Cannabis and Jesus a Christian Roundtable

About this Episode

In this eye-opening episode of the Bad Roman Podcast, we venture into the intricate, complex, and often misunderstood realm of marijuana. Your host for this thought-provoking journey is Craig Harguess, accompanied by a diverse group of guests - Scott, Aaron, Jim, and William. 

Each brings to the table their personal encounters, knowledge, and unique viewpoints on the topic of marijuana use, which goes beyond the clichéd stereotypes and delves into societal, legal, and religious dimensions. Our intention with this episode is to challenge the prevailing misconceptions, stimulate intellectual discourse, and provide a fresh perspective on marijuana. 

We aim to demystify the subject and explore its multi-faceted dimensions – from the societal implications of marijuana use to the controversial war on drugs, and from the adverse effects of government propaganda to the potential medical benefits of marijuana. One of the significant areas of discussion is the comparison of marijuana with pharmaceutical drugs and alcohol. In a world where prescription drugs and alcohol consumption are largely normalized, we delve into the complex question of whether marijuana, a naturally occurring plant, is inherently any more harmful or beneficial. 

From a religious perspective, the episode ventures into uncharted territory as it discusses the place of marijuana in Christian teachings. Rooted in the belief that God is the ultimate creator, our host, and guests explore the concept that marijuana, as a part of God's creation, may have a significant role to play. They navigate through scripture and theology, bringing forth interpretations that aim to challenge conventional beliefs. 

Throughout this illuminating discussion, we are constantly reminded that this conversation is not about advocating for 'potheads', but rather about the legality and morality of a God-created plant. 

The goal is to encourage an understanding of cannabis that transcends the stigma and stereotypes, helping us to better comprehend the complexities of state power, control, and the choices we make as Christians. The conversation dives deep into the heart of the controversy surrounding marijuana - the legal implications, mass incarceration, and societal perception of marijuana use. It brings to light the interplay of political power and public opinion, questioning the narratives we've been fed and urging us to think critically about the societal structures that govern us.

 This enlightening episode of the Bad Roman Podcast invites you to partake in a thought-provoking conversation, unraveling the intricacies, complexities, and controversies surrounding marijuana. Whether you are a believer or not, this discussion seeks to broaden your understanding and encourage a more informed perspective on marijuana use. 

Join us on the Bad Roman Podcast as we embark on this exploratory journey, challenging preconceived notions, stimulating deeper conversations, and fostering an open-minded, nuanced understanding of marijuana use. Prepare to have your perspectives challenged, your curiosity piqued, and your understanding of this God-created plant transformed.

Learn More About this Topic:

Endocannabinoid System Facebook

Araon’s Instagram @heavyicerx

Episode Timestamps:

(00:02) Christian Perspectives on Marijuana Use

Marijuana, Christianity, and the state are discussed with guests sharing personal experiences and views on government regulation.

(11:02) Perspectives on Marijuana

Jim shares his experience growing up in a rural area where marijuana was stigmatized, but later discovered its widespread use among adults.

(19:19) From Pharmaceuticals to Cannabis

Aaron shares his personal experience with marijuana for chronic pain, limitations of pharmaceuticals, growing own medicine, and promoting natural remedies.

(27:17) Lack of Trust in Medical Industry

Erosion of trust in medical industry, influence of pharmaceutical companies, demonization of marijuana by church and government, importance of education on cannabis.

(31:31) Marijuana, Alcohol, and Control

Personal experiences, war on drugs, and power dynamics surrounding marijuana's legalization and impact on mass incarceration.

(43:13) Marijuana and the Stigma Debate

Nature's purpose for marijuana, stigma and stereotypes, fear-mongering tactics, modern-day perception, and charity donations.

(55:56) Effects of Marijuana on Individuals

Nature's marijuana: personal experiences, benefits and drawbacks, societal judgments, potential for managing anxiety and stress.

(01:02:31) Marijuana's Benefits and Conversation

Participants share experiences with marijuana for anxiety and pain, considering its benefits and religious perspective.

(01:14:07) Discussion on Marijuana and Religious Perspectives

Cannabis and faith are discussed, acknowledging its positive effects on anxiety and the natural goodness of the plant.

(01:24:41) Marijuana

Nature's healing properties of marijuana are explored, challenging stigma and promoting understanding through personal experiences and recommended resources.

(01:29:40) Personal Transformations and New Opportunities

Host's updates: new vehicle, wife's higher-paying job, leaving job, exploring opportunities, homeschooling, coding, coaching, starting podcast. Grateful for brothers' support. Assisting with weight loss and addiction. Emphasizes healthy diet. Love and appreciation for listeners.

(01:34:58) Beliefs, Apparel, and Social Media

The panel discuss cannabis benefits, wearing podcast apparel, and potential pushback for their beliefs.

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76. "What about Romans 13?" with Matt Mouzakis

About this Episode

Craig is joined by Matt Mouzakis, worship pastor and co-host of Expedition 44, a popular theology podcast where the ancient languages and context of the Bible are discussed. Matt is doing his doctorate in New Testament studies, specializing in the passages often cited by Christian statists when they want to defend strict obedience to the government.

Matt explains how words like submit (hypotassesthō), and concepts like paying taxes take on very different meanings when placed in their proper context. Read Romans 13 through the eyes of a first-century Jew, see it in a fresh new light, and be prepared to confound the next statist who asks you, "But what about Romans 13?".

In fact, the only one to whom people owe allegiance and should be under the authority of is Jesus Himself. When we desire to put another into power over ourselves and our neighbors, it is a sin because humans are not to have authority over one another.

Craig and Matt delve into those passages used against women in ministry. Again, we discover that read in the context of the time and in their original language, nothing suggests women are to be subject to men in God's kingdom. We find God's ideals at the beginning and end of the Bible, and that is God alone reigning over humanity.

Expedition 44:

YouTube

Website

Covenant Theological Seminary

Expedition 44 episode on Romans 13

Ryan's book: This is the Way

Episode Timestamps:

1:54 – Who is Matt Mouzakis?

• Worship pastor at "Bapticostal" church

• Father of 4

• Theology geek doing Doctorate in New Testament

• Co-host of Expedition 44 podcast with Dr Ryan (Head Chair of Biblical Studies at Covenant Theological Seminary

• Expedition 44

• Discuss the ancient context of the Bible

• Salvation is a journey "expedition" 

• The separatist ancient Essene community gave themselves the number 22

• God doubles the portion, which is where the 44 comes from 

8:15 – The Church of Nationalism

• American pastors don't speak against the entanglement of Christians and the state

• Sometimes they advocate for candidates

• The early church was outspoken against the Roman Empire

• But it is glossed over these days

• Churches seek power through the state now

• There's no basis in the Bible for Christians to be seeking any power

• We need no king but Christ

• Politics comes into your theology

• Some would say that representative government is different from serving another king

• In the first two pages and last two pages of the Bible is where you find God's ideals

• Everything in the middle is messed up

• Humans are not to have authority over one another

• Not even men over women

• The hebrew word "Tsela" should be translated as "side" rather than "rib"

• On the last page of the Bible, you see men and women under God's authority

• That's God's ideal

• That should inform our politics

• We are ambassadors from another King

• Our government has its own kingdom

• The fall is the "defilement of all of creation"

• There are multiple falls in the Old Testament

• When people usurp God's authority, humans rule other humans

• That is not a part of God's ideals

18:58 – Women in Ministry

• A topic that is spoken about on Expedition 44

• Women were the first to tell of Jesus' resurrection

• The men were in hiding

• Paul was very egalitarian

• When we don't look at the Bible in context, it gets confusing

• If Genesis 3 is reversed in Jesus, the church should reflect that

• The local context of Paul telling women to be quiet was an all-women-led cult

• Right before that, he tells the men off for being angry

• None should have authority over others in the church

• The women were trying to teach before they had learned

• Greek tenses matter in better translation

• Keith Giles's episode about women and the church

• Women stayed at home and were less educated in Paul's day

• Women were to learn but not interrupt the service

• 1 Corinthians 14: 34-35 might be an error added to the text based on a scribble by a scribe

• Philip Payne's book – One In Christ

• Expedition 44 episode – Women Must Be Silent?

26:16 – Romans 13

• The words "submit" and "obey" are two different words

• Romans 13 is the go-to for opponents of "No King but Christ"

• Romans 13 should be read in light of Romans 12

• The chapter breaks weren't there originally

• Romans chapters 12-16 should be read as a chunk

• All the things that Jesus said about enemy love do not fit with Romans 13

• Romans 13:1 & 5 Submit is hypotassesthō

• Defined as voluntary yielding

• Obey God is hupakouó

• David Bently Heart – New Testament

• It is necessary that we obey God rather than man

• The Bible should be read as a whole

• The whip that Jesus used was a common tool to heard animals

• He didn't harm any people

• He was angry at the extortion in the temple

• The gospel spreads by word of mouth too

• "Governing authorities"

• A common expression for anyone with authority

• Not necessarily government

• The people of the day were in Rome

• A place of multiple layers of governing 

• Neighborhood watch role, rather than law enforcement

• Rome wasn't taxed at the time when Romans was written

• Romans 13:1 - exousia means evil powers

• And appears in Ephesians 6:12

• Paul understood demons controlled the empires

• Jesus didn't rebuke Satan when he offered Him the kingdoms of the world

• Deuteronomy 32 – Moses says God divided mankind and gave them to the sons of God

42:18 – Is voting a sin?

• 1 Samuel 8

• Craig has concluded that voting is a sin

• Jesus said the gentiles lorded power over others, but we were not to be the same

• God said it was not Samuel that was rejected, rather it was God Himself

• Rejecting God is a sin

• Sleeping is better than exercising power over others

• Matt and Steve discussed whether or not Christians should vote

• The desire to have a king is to reject God

• Voting is the desire to put someone in power over ourselves and neighbors

• Therefore, voting is a rejection of God

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50. Changing Hearts: Heal, Develop, Share with David Gornoski

David Gornoski is the host of the radio show A Neighbor’s Choice –a show that looks at politics, science, and culture through the lens of Jesus’ personhood revolution. In this episode, David shares his strategy for changing the direction of the world. If we want to see political change, we must change the hearts of the citizens. In order to do this, we must imitate Jesus. On his radio show and also on his online exclusive podcast and film series, THINGS HIDDEN, David has interviewed personalities like Ron Paul, Jordan Peterson, and Slavoj Žižek.

David has also written multiple essays and columns promoting Jesus’ nonviolent ethos and personhood revolution for publications such as DailyCaller, Townhall, American Conservative, and FEE. David’s shows provide a look at current events through the lens of anthropology and imitating what Christ really did while He was on Earth. His YouTube channel is currently banned for “speaking too much truth” (something we Christian-anarchist know all too well).

After listening you will have a new understanding of how we can help lead people away from the state and to Christ by healing, developing new technologies, and sharing victims’ stories.

EPISODE TIMESTAMPS:

3:05 Jesus changed history

• The last shall be first and the first shall be last

  • In His day, the elite got the place of honor at the amphitheater

    • Today, disabled people get the place of honor in the theater 

      • No one dares take those seats, even if the theater’s packed

  • Groups are now vying to be seen as the least

    • BLM, StopAsianHate, women

    • Gun owners vs gun violence victims

    • Right vs left

  • Who are the victims and who are the monsters?

  • I desire mercy, not sacrifice

    • People these days try to show mercy with sacrifice

      • I will give you this medicine for free, but if you don't take it, you will be excluded from society 

  • “Everybody's vying for the perks of being the most supreme martyr.” - David

    • They want to stick their face in the hole of the painting the cross like tourists do

    • “Jesus said the stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. Meaning, in the act of being perceived to be rejected, you gain power and that power can be used for good or evil.” - David

  • They convinced Americans that we needed to be in Afghanistan to help women become empowered 

    • “It's disturbing to me how Christians will buy into this narrative to we're helping these folks by dropping bombs on their children.” -Craig

      • “We’re helping them, but we have to kill them first.” -Craig

  • Sometimes atheists act more Christ-like than Christians

    • They get it from somewhere

      • Jesus’ influence permeates the world

      • Loving one’s neighbor or enemy were not concepts in the world when Jesus was on Earth or before

12:37 Government & Politics

• To fix stuff, we need to change people's minds about the state by loving our enemies and caring for our neighbors

  • Thus exposing the government for not doing it

• “The government is almost like a curse for when a society becomes decadent and stupid, and it doesn't know how to police itself.” - David

• Which came first? Corrupt government or corrupt society?

• No matter who you are, you are part of society and part of the political system

• Parties

  •  Libertarian

    • Fight about everything, fiercely

    • No unity

  • Democrats

    • We're going to take your stuff and do whatever we want with it

    • and we will tell you that to your face

  • Republicans

    • We will do the same as the Democrats, but try to hide it

• Libertarianism and anarchism are like supplements 

  • When you don't have Jesus Himself, you take vitamin pills of His philosophy 

  • They're like a malnourished form of Christianity

    • “Libertarianism and Anarchism only exist because there's a malnourished form of Christianity that's dominant in the culture.” - David

16:32 Christianity

• People get defensive against the American version of Christianity… because it's not true Christianity!

  • People take more of Decartes’ approach

    • I think I am ___, therefore I am 

    • Also apply other religions/ways of thinking’s approach to their Christian religion

  • Spreading American Christianity is like telling a young black person that if they believe in the stories they're told about MLK, then they can benefit from what he did

    • We all benefit from him, even those of us who don't know he existed

  • Jesus is the King of the world. He has an effect on everyone. 

    • It doesn’t start when we believe the exact formula our sect says we must

• Paul

  • “God didn't want him to kill those people. So the God that he was serving didn't exist.” - David

  • He quoted a Greek play when telling the Greeks his conversion story

    •  From Bacchae

      • The people put the god Dionysis on trial as if they had authority over him, just as Jesus was put on trial when He's the ruler of the universe

      • However, instead of destroying his enemies, Jesus submitted to them quietly and then showed Saul (Paul) love instead of punishing him

23:18 To make the state irrelevant

• We have to change people's hearts by imitating Christ

• I don’t want to call myself an anarchist anymore; I’m just telling people I’m a Christian -Craig

  • I’m an anarchist because I’m a Christian

    • No King but Christ

    • I imitate Jesus, who was not involved with the state!

      •  Are we not going to imitate Jesus?

  • Polycarp

    • Honor the government unless it does us harm

      • What do they do that doesn’t bring someone harm?

• Our message must stay consistent

  • No King but Christ means we don’t follow to the state

    • Counterargument: If the state does exist, it can be used to move things in the right direction

      • There’s good teachers in a bad school

      • People make friends in concentration camps

• Is voting violence?

  • Most of the time, yes

  • But voting for Ron Paul might not have been

  • People want to vote for more liberty

    • Legalize… liberty?

      • “Dude… you’ve already got liberty.” -Craig

      • Don’t force me into your vision of liberty by law

    • You cannot gain liberty through force

29:43 So, what does it look like to bring about liberty by changing hearts?

• Love your neighbor, and everything else will fall into place

  • How? 

    • How do we love triple-maskers who want us to behave like them?

    • What does it look like to love someone who wants the vaccine to be required for you to go to the store and feed your family?

    • or the people who want you to hate yourself for your gender or skin color?

  • Ask real questions

    • Do you want to force people to get the vaccine?

      • No, but they should be pushed to

        • Pushed how?

        • Pushed by vaccine passports

        • How would the passports be enforced?

          • It’s force

  • Imitate Jesus

    • He was healing people all the time

    • He asked people questions to get them to think

    • To heal:

      • Find cures for major diseases

      • People are dependent on the state to heal them

        • Nutrition science is funded by the state

      • Scientists and doctors believe that 90% of diseases or disappear if we stopped eating vegetable oils

        • Most olive oils are corrupted, but it's not on their labels

        • They sneak vegetable oil into everything, even products that say they're made with olive oil or  something else

        • If a fat guy and a skinny guy eat the same amount of food

          • The difference is how their body processes vegetable oils

          • The fat guy's body stores it

          • The skinny guys runs it as fuel

            • Can cause autoimmune disorders

      • Set aside Wednesday services for health education

      • Therapeutic Ketosis

      • Prison reduced omega-6

        • Antisocial violent tendencies reduced

      • Heal your neighbors’ chronic health problems so when they get COVID, they won't get deathly ill

  • After we heal them physically, they might start to wonder what other lies the government has fed them

  • People around the healthy start to ask what they’re doing to prevent disease in their family

42:10 More health tips

• Carbs are inflammatory

• Vegetable oils are in our pork and chicken fat because they feed them grain

  • The meat becomes high in PUFAs

    • polyunsaturated fatty acids

  • They get extra fat

• Fatty acids are unstable and were never meant to be our fuel

  • 5 tablespoons of corn oil = 96 ears of corn

  • It’s toxic, but they find ways to deodorize it

• If you try to avoid it, it’s in EVERYTHING

  • Burgers, buns, ice cream, cookies, crackers

    • A little sugar treat is fine; just make sure you’re not also eating seed oils

• Government-funded healthcare cannot fix what government-funded nutrition science broke

  • They’re pushing the anti-meat agenda with their “experts”

    • They tell people they can lessen their guilt by eating vegan

      • Vegetarian choices kill more animals than meat options

        • Wildlife is displaced and killed to make room for fields

49:00 Technology to reduce scarcity

• Not only expose people to myths about war and food

• Provide alternative energy sources

  • Low-temperature nuclear energy

    • Small, maybe neighborhood-sized

    • Won’t explode because it’s not hot, no high pressure

  • 24/7 solar panels

    • All over the house that harvests intermittent energy

  • Elemental transmutation

  • Not funded by taxpayer dollars

  • Disrupt the Middle Eastern oil deal

51:57 Government narratives

• The planet is dying; we’re the only ones who can save you

  • If we have our own energy, we’ll be more capable of surviving

• We’re the only place you can afford to get health care

  • Depend on each other and work hard

  • Learn the truth about your health

54:35 The heart of a child

• Full of wonder and imagination

• Freely loving

• Jesus didn’t listen to institutions

• Tesla got his alternative form of electricity into the world through the market

• Challenge orthodoxy

56:51 Why this isn’t happening

• Churches are afraid to step out and look quacky

• Or people know someone who’s involved in the seed oil industry

• Afraid to get involved in political issues

57:54 Tell stories of victims

• Step 1: Heal

• Step 2: Outcompete the government monopolies

• Step 3: Personalize

  • Don’t just try to convince their mind

  • Irwin Schiff 

    • Wrote books on tax evasion

    • Chained as if he posed a physical threat on his deathbed

  • Kids with dads arrested for victimless crimes

    • Cry every night

    • Grades suffer 

    • Performance in and enjoyment of activities go down

  • Just as the Gospel writers told the story of an innocent victim

1:03:35 Plugs

• Aneighborschoice.com

• Email

• Podcast

• Banned from YouTube; interview with Bob Murphy

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49. Anyone Can Be Evil with Abby Cleckner

In this episode, we are joined by long-time Bad Roman contributor, Abby Cleckner, to discuss her article from July 2020, Never Follow Orders. We are all capable of horrible things. With this knowledge in mind, It is important that each of us take responsibility for our actions, consider carefully why we are doing what we do, and don’t blame those in authority over us for our actions.

Studies have proven that the majority of people will do anything, even harm another person, if someone in authority demands or instructs them to.

Understanding that we are all susceptible to committing atrocities if we find ourselves in positions of power or under the command of those with power, enables us to be honest about the consequences of allowing individuals and organizations to acquire too much of it.

When we deny that we are capable of doing horrible things, we erroneously begin to respect the authority of another person more than that of God’s or our own values.

Abby Cleckner has contributed several articles to our blog and is now co-host for The Bad Roman Podcast! This episode was recorded before she accepted that position. You can find her on Facebook and Instagram. 

Episode Timestamps:

2:46 People are submitting to the government as if nothing bad has ever come of it

People forget things... One trip around the fishbowl, and they’re done.

There was a time in this country when people would say, ‘You can’t do that! This is America.’ You can’t say that anymore.

- Craig

4:40 The next generation

• As schools have become even more prison-like

  • Perhaps the next generation will protect their children from a similar experience

8:19 Connection between The Nuremberg Trials, The Key Takeaways of the Milgram Experiment & Vietnam Draft Objectors

• The Nazis were the ones on trial

  • Following orders is not an excuse for committing atrocities

• Most used the defense: “I was just following orders”

• Dr. Milgram wondered if the average person was susceptible to would join a movement like the Nazis? How was it that there were so many people involved? 

  • The majority of people think Nazis were unusually evil, and that they themselves would never do such crimes, under any orders.

• Milgram’s experiment provided evidence that a statistically significant amount of people are likely to carry out actions, that they may personally question, upon instruction from an authority figure.

  • “The draw to follow authority is so much more powerful than we realize.”

• In the Vietnam War Draft, one man refused to fight because of what he had learned from being part of the Milgram experiment.

Almost anyone would follow almost any order to harm someone.

- Abby, on what the Millgram Experiemnt can teach us

11:40 “Just doing their job”

• This is how we excuse police brutality

• They take an oath to the Constitution

  • and then they don't follow the Constitution; they follow orders

  • Politicians make unconstitutional laws, and the police enforce them without question

12:12 The Milgram Experiment explained

• A test to see how applicable the Nuremberg Defense is

  • How many people would do anything they were told and claim it was good because they were following orders?

  • How far would the average person go?

• The setup

  • People were told they were part of an experiment to test how punishment affects performance

    • An actor on the other side of the wall pretended to be receiving worse and worse electric shocks as they failed to perform the task

    • The participant had to push a button to administer the shocks and turn up the dial as time went on

    • Eventually, the actor starts begging to quit

    • Then they start yelling and banging on the walls

    • and then they go silent

  • Most people stopped at some point and asked if they should continue because the other person seemed to be in distress

    • The people running the experiment convinced them that it was very important that they finish the trial

  • 65% of people went all the way to the end 

    • They were willing to kill a stranger

      • Just because another stranger told them to

• Everybody thinks they'd be in the 35% who would never do that

  • That's why it's so important to know about this experiment

  • You likely wouldn't be

    • Unless we’re aware of our tendencies and consciously choose to stand up

  • It's not necessarily bad that everyone naturally follows authority

    • It keeps society running smoothly when every person isn't constantly fighting back 

16:10 The point of her article

• In every small decision, we make every day, we must ask ourselves:

  • Do I believe in this?

  • Am I only doing this because somebody told me to? 

  • How would I explain my actions to someone else?

• Take ownership of your actions

  • It is your fault, even if someone in authority ordered you to do that

• “The problem isn't the police; they're just doing their job.”

  • Police not taking responsibility is the problem

    • Yes, the politicians making bad laws is a problem, but it really wouldn't be if the people under them made their own decisions and refused to carry out orders

  • The everyday officers are the ones taking action

18:44 Christians are no better 

• Christians are willing to follow authority, even if it's harmful to someone

  • Conversation with Eloquilt will be available Feb 10, 2022

  • Politicians steal, murder, and commit all kinds of sins

    • Voting them into office is sort of like asking them to commit those sins for you

Christian culture puts authority on a pedestal

• We are taught to train our children to “respect” authority at all times

• Romans 13 spouters

  • If someone's in authority, it's because God put them there, so we have to do whatever they say

  • People quote this first and then run away before they have to defend it

Christians are kind of obsessed with authority.

- Abby

If these guys are in power because God put them there, and they're not following the laws of God, we're not supposed to obey that just because they're in power

- Craig

• People misread scripture as an easy way out

  • If you have to do whatever the authority tells you and you don't have to make difficult decisions, then you don't have to deal with the consequences or guilt.

• A common theme in the Bible is to disobey authority in order to follow God

• If you vote for someone you don't like just because you hate the other person

  • That doesn't actually make sense  

  • That's voting out of fear, not because there's someone good

    • Any decision made out of fear should be reconsidered 

23:00 He made me do it!

• Take responsibility for your actions

• Recognize that nobody can make you have an emotion

  •  or take an action

  •  or say certain words

• Practice with the small, everyday decisions

24:27 The soap opera of politics

They put in an older version of Trump

You've been told you won, so you're happy. Or you've been told you're who you lost, so you're mad.

- Abby

Nothing has changed or will change with the state.

- Craig

27:09 Muhammad Ali

• Refused the draft for Vietnam

• A lot of people called him a coward, but he went to prison for his convictions

  • Gave up his career

  • Lost his title

• Military Drafts

  • Governments forcing citizens to fight their wars

  • Why don't the leaders just duke it out?

    • Saddam Hussein offered to duel George Bush Sr.

      • He asked, why get all these people involved?

Why do thousands or millions of people have to die for problems between politicians?

- Abby

31:00 Martin Luther King Jr.

• No violence, but also no obedience

• If we live as a community and take care of each other, we can just ignore the government because we won't need anything they have to offer

  • If everyone ignores them, they will become obsolete and lose power

  • A community can provide much better than the government because they can see exactly what you need and not just give you the standard package

Everything the government does is] to increase their power. Nothing they do is benevolence or the kindness of their own heart.

- Abby

• People are getting vaccinated so they can have the freedom to travel

  • That is not freedom!

• When you see someone getting sprayed with a fire hose, and they respond calmly, you want to join them because obviously, what they're doing has meaning and a quiet power

  • The aggressor wasn't those seeking freedom; it was the state

  • The Kingdom of God is upside down like that

    • It gets power from love and non-violence

      • Not money and might

36:40 Making choices at work

I have to do things I don't agree with that work because they're paying me, but I'll raise a stink about it first and tell them why I think it's wrong and demand that they explain why it's not.

- Craig

To an extent. If I disagree with how we're getting something done, I'll still do the task the way they taught me. 

For every decision I make sure, I consciously decide what I'm going to do for myself, I have to acknowledge that I am the one making the choice, and there is still a point at which I draw the line in the sand and refuse.

 You have to recognize the strong inner pull to follow authority and practice questioning it. Recognize that you're not harmless and that you could be talked into doing horrible things.

- Abby

39:32 The government unicorn

• Most people agree that politicians are evil

  • But they still think the government is good

    • How is this possible when the government is made up of politicians?

    • People in it do horrible things, but the unicorn of government as a whole is good? 

• People think if they believe hard enough in the unicorn, things will work out in the end

• The unicorn does not exist!

Let's talk about what actually exists. What you fully admit you hate and is harming you personally. That's what the government is. It's not this unicorn that you imagined.

- Abby

• People believe that if the correct letter is by someone's name, then they have everything right because the other side is completely wrong.

• Many people on the right have an innate sense of not wanting politicians to tell them what to do

  • But at the same time, they 

    • back the blue 

    • support the troops

    • believe in authority

    • Live with strong cognitive dissonance

• People on the left see the government almost as God

  •  Someone who will provide & be benevolent

• Both tribes are cruel to the other side

42:35 The Bad Romans

• We want people who are on the fence to listen

  •  Who agree with 75% of what we say

• People need to just start thinking logically about the world

  •  About how,

    • economics work

    • government's involvement affects us

    • people's rights

• If people start off focusing on their personal responsibility, the rest will follow

  • We should never, ever tell someone else how they are allowed to live, 

    • even if our philosophy is truly better 

    • even if they’re living as a slave

  • You don't necessarily know what's best for someone else

    • God's will for them might not be what you expect and no one has perfect theology

• You're probably have changed your opinion many times 

  • So will other people

  • Don't come down on them too harshly

    • This is using your intellectual authority to make people feel stupid 

    • In the Kingdom of Heaven, we leave space for their hearts to heal

  • We didn't get where we are overnight 

• If people see us being kind, it might Inspire them to stick around

49:00 The empire will fall soon; we must be ready

• We need to come together as a voluntary society so we can take care of each other

  • Working towards a change in politicians is not going to help us, because power can corrupt even the most idealistic person

• Stanford Prison Experiment

They knew full well, it was an experiment and you were randomly chosen to be a guard or a prisoner, but yeah, their, their authoritarianism just got very quickly, really out of control.

- Abby

• We've got to move away from our cruel human nature end towards the heart of Christ

  • God created us all good

    •  But we easily end up in bondage, especially to the love of power

    • We need to be aware and on guard, because we are all capable of horrible things

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