Podcast, 2022
Craig Harguess
51. Jesus the Anarchist with Alexandre ...
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31. Christians and Muslims Breaking Bread with Peace Catalyst

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LISTEN NOW

 

On this episode, Craig and Abby Cleckner talk with Keith Giles and Becca from the Peace Catalyst Podcast. The Peace Catalyst is an organization that is committed to fostering understanding, reconciliation, and peace between Christians and Muslims. Jesus was the Prince of Peace, and as Christians we should be constantly striving to live a life of peace and love towards others, especially those with differing beliefs or culture than ours. Because of the political narrative, driven by the media, American Christians have been misled and taught to hate and fear those who we don’t understand. The Peace Catalyst helps to foster conversation and relationship, which in turn, help to bring an understanding of the humanity and dignity of others we may currently see as different. 

LINKS & STARTING POINTS:

2:45 Becca’s background 

  • working with Peace Catalyst for 2 years

  • was looking for a faith based peacebuilding avenue 

6:10 Keith’s history with Peace Catalyst

  • got involved in Peace Catalyst about 1 ½ ago

  • first involvement was a Peace Feast

  • Martin Brooks: Director of Peace Catalyst 

10:09 Becca: burdened to help facilitate peace between Christians and Muslims

  • Israel/Palestine

  • while in college developed a deeper understanding of the Middle East and the conflict between Israel and Palestine 

  • grew up in a pro Israel environment 

  • while in Jordan developed a deeper understanding of the Middle East 

  • connected with others who have a heart for peace 

  • wanted to participate in restoring Shalom 

  • push back from people who don’t have a holistic view of the situation and don’t understand the many factors at play 

15:38 Peace Catalyst 

  • proponent of loving everyone, regardless of race or religious affiliation 

  • facilitate reconciliation 

  • remind and educate Christians about their ministry of reconciliation

18:01 American Christians have bought into a false ideas 

  • “they hate us for our freedoms” 

  • the truth is not the story as it has been told and presented to us by media and those with political interest in the narrative

  • the way to break down barriers is by sitting down and talking to the “other side”

  • listen to their story to build empathy 

  • “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi 

  • Christian Tribalism 

  • it is not black and white, good guys vs. bad guys

25:40 Three Stages of Peace 

  • Stage One - Understanding 

  • Stage Two - Connecting

  • Stage Three - Collaborating

  • American Christians don’t realize that most Muslims condemn 9/11 and violent extremist/terrorist (just like they do) 

32:05 Are people afraid to be wrong? 

  • politics and media are used to instil fear and misconception 

  • we don’t have to believe the same thing in order to respect each other’s dignity as fellow human beings

  • it’s ok to disagree 

  • fear is heretics 

  • we act as if Christianity had all the correct information about God 

  • the Gospel is not about information, it is about transformation 

  • if you are going to follow Christ you are called to love your neighbor 

  • move away from the need for certainty 

  • move away from fear, move towards love

  • Romans 12, transformed by the renewing of your mind 

  • you are closer to God when you are asking questions, than when you have it all figured out 

44:20 Peace Catalyst started by Rick Love

  • he also started Evengelicals for Peace 

  • the goal is fostering peace between Muslims and Christians and bringing peace to our communities 

  • how can we work together as a community 

  • why and how Christians should engage in peace building 

48:42 Plugs 

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30. Anarchy in Action - A Look at Agorism with Joshua of Our Foundations Podcast

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Is Agorism an ideal that meshes with the teachings of Christ? Are agorism and anarchism similar or are they distinct ideals?

In this episode, Craig talks with Joshua, founder of Our Foundations, a podcast focused on agorism and how it overlaps with Anarchism and true Christianity. Joshua explains how agorism looks in everyday life and how we might implement these principles within society. Joshua draws out the stark contrast in how the first Church, the Church of Jesus, functioned in comparison to how the Church, as a whole, functions today. What is a Freedom Cell and how might you utilize one in your everyday life? Not only does Joshua give us a lot to think about, here provides real-world examples of how he has overcome the challenges of living out Agorism...one of which is the Freedom Cell. 


Links & Starting Points:

1:29 Joshua’s Background 

  • Started digging into economics, political theory, and Bible studies 

  • learned about agorism and related it to political philosophy 

  • started podcast

  • anarchism: political philosophy 

  • agorism: a way of life or applied radical libertarianism 

  • Samuel Edward Konkin 3rd, SEK3

  • grey and black markets

  • red markets: anything involving violence, theft, war

11:00 In the kingdom of God this is our system within the system 

  • impacting the state starts on a personal level 

  • personal responsibility is both anarchism and Christianity 

  • applying these principles in our own life so it can have a personal impact 

12:50. Examples from the early church

  • settle disputes outside of court 

  • Bible gives guidelines for settling disputes outside of the state 

  • welfare is a personal and church responsibility 

  • if modern Christians viewed the church the way they view the state things would be completely different 

  • the church, as a whole, doesn’t exist the way Jesus intended 

20:20 Christians want to outsource responsibility to the state 

  • it is a church on individual responsibility 

  • society has been taught to obey and respect and authority without question: teacher, textbooks, experts 

31:20 Historical Patterns/Cycles 

  • Vin Armani and the Dim Age 

  • leaving material age, entering mystical age 

  • spiritual focus 

  • disregards fact of Bible or science 

  • technology: cell phones, artificial intelligence, genetic therapy, MRNA vaccine 

  • The Church is awakening a new religion. 

  • going against it will and you will be ridiculed, fired, blacklisted 

  • people are searching for spirituality 

  • true Christianity is something that will fill the void

51:43 Agorism group and Freedom Cells

  • online platform for like-minded people to organize 

  • a way to develop real local connections 

58:05 Joshua’s Plugs

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29. Bringing Jesus to the Secular World - Meeting the Youth Where They Are with Luke Greenwood

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For many people around the globe today, religion is viewed as a dead tradition of the past with no current relevance. How is it possible to bring Jesus to those who have a distaste for organized religion and Christian values? Craig talks with Luke Greenwood of Steiger International about how Steiger approaches their target mission field. Steiger focuses on sharing the good news of Jesus in a manner that crosses secular cultural boundaries and preconceived prejudices. They have teams in major cities all around the globe, engaging and building relationships as they immerse themselves with the youth of the world. 

They present the gospel in a relevant, yet bold, manner that works to break through the apathetic demeanor of the culture and bring the living God to life for them. 

TIMESTAMPS AND STARTING POINTS:

4:20 Luke’s background 

  • born in UK to missionaries

  • grew up in Brazil as a missionary kid

  • call from God to go on missions

  • call to cross secular cultural boundaries

  • now serves in world wide missions

  • uses music as a tool to share the gospel

11:18 Experience at Polish Woodstock 

  • secular youth culture views religion as a dead tradition of the past 

  • there is a distaste towards Christian values 

  • “illegal” concert 

  • invited back the next year to perform on the Hare Krishna’s main stage 

25:00 More about Steiger International 

  • Steiger’s primary purpose: bridge the gap between the church and the global youth community 

  • Steiger teams in major cities around the world 

  • proclaiming the gospel in the secular culture 

  • discipleship 

29:30  How to get involved 

33:30 Provoke and Inspire Podcast 

36:40 Luke’s Book

  • Global Youth Culture: the Spiritual Hunger of the Largest Unreached Culture Today

  • find it on Amazon

  • What is the world’s view today? 

  • secular humanism 

  • how can we bring the good news of Jesus into that scene?

Luke’s Plugs: Steiger.org, his book, the podcast

Get involved in a city near you! 


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28. The American Church’s Political Obsession with Scott Arnold

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Many Christians in the United States are outspoken about their desires for Christian men and women to obtain political power and influence. The stance is that religious freedoms need to be protected, but is forcing morality on the people through legislation an effective way to spread the gospel?  Could Christians be doing more harm than good in their efforts?

Scott Arnold is the author of the article Winning the Battle, But Losing the War: The American Church’s Political Obsession.  In this episode, Craig talks with Scott about his transition from a world of conservative, Christian, and redline Republican upbringing into one of Christain Anarchy. They explore how the gospel message can be destroyed or damaged by using politics to force a Christian agenda. Scott also explains his involvement with Steiger International, whose mission is to impact the global youth culture and make the gospel relevant. This is a thought-provoking episode for any Christian who has been of the mindset that Christians need to use politics to further their agenda or force their morality on others. 


Timestamps and starting points:

1:27 Scott’s Background

  • Grew up in the conservative Christian republican culture 

  • majored in pastoral ministries 

  • currently lives in northeast Georgia 

4:04 How Scott found The Bad Roman

8:04 Learning about anarchy 

11:35 Discussing Scott’s article: Winning the Battle, but Losing the War: The American Church’s Political Obsession

  • Christians equate increased political power with increased influence

  • When bringing the gospel into the political realm pieces are lost 

  • Abortion and the messy art of law making

  • using politics to force Christian values on others

  • using the government to control morals 

  • outsource morality to the state

  • the state is not, and cannot be, Christian

  • Myth of Christain Nation

26:25 What is the endgame in winning this war?

  • Best case: Christian religious freedom and comfortability 

  • worst case: suppression of all other philosophies 

  • is it really religious freedom Christians are fighting for?

  • prayer in school 

43:05 Polish Woodstock

Scott’s Plugs:

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27. The Pacifist Case for Gun Rights with Abby Cleckner

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Most people wouldn’t include the ideas of pacifism in the same thought as contemplating gun rights, except possibly to concur that those things are opposing ideas on the spectrum of peace. Abby Cleckner does an excellent job of explaining how the two can naturally coexist in the same paradigm.

In this episode, Craig tackles this topic, as well as digging into what defines a human right. The term “right” is tossed around a lot in today’s society, but what truly is a human right? And how can someone who advocates for peace and complete pacifism also advocate for the right to own a gun? Can the same Jesus who says “blessed are the peacemakers”, and commands us to turn the other cheek and to love our neighbor, be the same God who created us with the right to own a weapon that has the ability to bring to fruition the opposite of all those things? Abby addresses this along with other related topics in this episode. 

Timestamps and starting points:

1:18 Is pacifism inaction? 

  • blessed are the peacemakers 

  • using violence to fight violence, creates more violence

  • “peacemaker” is a term of action

  • planning for peace: consider peaceful ways to defend your family and yourself

  • civil rights activist: trouble makers for peace

  • if we believe that we are a part of God’s kingdom then we have to use His methods. 

7:11 Civil Rights Movement: troublemakers for peace 

11:42 Les Miserables

19:07 Using Legislation to Correct Behavior

  • Why it doesn’t work

  • causes collateral damage

  • Henry Hazlitt: seen and unseen consequences 

  • how does a society get to the point of Nazi Germany

23:30 The Pacifist Case for Gun Rights

  • gun control

  • Advocating the government to use violence on your behalf is not pacifism

  • increases violence

  • you become the judge of others motives

  • gun control is essentially a “thought crime”

  • legality becomes synonymous with morality: war on drugs, prohibition   

37:00 Human Rights are Property Rights

  • What defines a human right? 

  • Property rights start with self-ownership

  • taking our rights seriously is an act of love for others

  • respect for others is essential for establishing the kingdom of heaven on earth 

42:02 Stop using political violence against your enemies

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26. How to be a Bad Roman with Scott Goldman

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What does it mean to be a Bad Roman, why is it a good thing for Christians? Craig talks to Scott Goldman about his article “Come Be a Bad Roman”. They discuss the Christian’s entanglement with the state and address the issue of whether or not it is possible to simultaneously engage with the state and follow Christ. Nations, such as the United States, make claims of freedom for all and give mouth to ideals held by Christianity, but does a State really behave in such a manner?

When we misconstrue a nation to be based on Christian values - when that State's involvement at home and abroad proves to be in stark contradiction to its claimed values we must turn away. As Christians we must decide: do we believe in the goal of peace at all cost, peace by might makes right, that the government justifies being their objective, or do we truly adhere to the teachings and challenge of Christ to love our neighbors and enemies?

Join us as Craig and Scott take on these questions head-on and address reasons why Christians seem too ready to follow a man-made government whose functioning is in direct opposition to Christ’s Kingdom.

Timestamps and starting points:

2:37 Intro to Scott’s article: Come Be a Bad Roman

  • We(Christians) are not called to be involved with the state.

  • Is it possible to engage with the state and follow Christ?

  • Pax Romana or the way of Christ?

  • Jesus did not come as a war hero

7:20 How can we expect the rest of the world to perceive the United States as a “Christian” nation when we are actively killing them?

9:30 A new kingdom emerging

13:07 The desire of control by both the left and the right side of the political spectrum. 

21:52 Why are Christians so ready to follow a man made government? 

  • Fear

  • Laziness and scapegoating 

26:10 American Christianity’s shirking of their responsibility

  • Christians support for Trump 

  • Is there a difference between the Democrats and Republicans?

  • How would we behave if the bombs were being dropped in the USA? 

30:24 Christ’s story through a different lens 

  • Pacifism explained

  • Christ was a pacifist, but also a man of action 

36:36 Our kingdom is not of this world 

  • fall of the Roman Empire 

  • Christ’s command to not worry 

  • The Mind of Christ 

  • Uprooting From the Poverty Mindset

46:00 No King But Christ

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25. Romans 13 & Stateless Civil Governance with Gregory Baus

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Is an elected official’s authority automatically ordained by God? What is Jesus referring to when he says “render unto Caesar what is Caesar's”? In the episode, Gregory Baus delves into Romans 13 and stateless civil governance. 

Are Christians required by God to submit to the governing authorities, even when they are tyrannical or immoral? Are all elected officials ordained by God? Is “render to Caesar” referring to a Biblical requirement for Christians to pay taxes? All of the questions and more are answered in this episode. Craig and Gregory also discuss their transition into anarchism and Gregory’s nomadic lifestyle, along with touching on reformed theology and how that affects an anarchist interpretation of Romans 13. 

Timestamps & starting points for further exploration:

1:50 Gregory’s background 

  • Baltimore

  • Munich

  • Covenant College

  • Redeemer University

  • teaching English overseas

7:30 Christian Philosophy 

11:15 Transition to anarchism

28:45 Proper understanding of individualism within anarchism

31:45 Romans 13  and Stateless Civil Governance: A Reformed View by Gregory’s Baus

45:25 Nomadic Lifestyle 

  • overseas during middle school 

  • Japan

  • California 

  • Canada

  • Netherlands

  • Cambodia 

  • Beijing 

  • Budapest 

49:00 Dave Ramsey

49:45 Gregory’s plugs 


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24. Mike Gaddy - Revisionist History - The US Constitution & Secession

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In the episode, Craig talks with his mentor and dear friend, Mike Gaddy, about secession. For many people, when they hear the word “secession,” slavery is the first thing that comes to mind. But is that a correct representation of secession throughout American history?

Mike has spent over 30 years searching for answers and information to map out a true and accurate representation of US history. His discovery? Oftentimes what we were taught in history class was a filtered down version of a multitude of complex events. This historical filter contributes to a false narrative regarding our understanding of the Constitution and our rights therein. According to Mike secession is peppered throughout true US history, and this fact has just been suppressed and removed from its historical context. Tune in to hear about the historical precedents for secession pre-Civil War, why the South wanted out of the Union, and if secession may be feasible in a modern context. 


Timestamps for further exploration:

1:20 Mike’s background

  • Born and raised in Appalachian Mountains

  • American Foundation for Accountability for POW and MIA    

2:40 Frustration over false historical information

  • United States’s laziness for information

  • People are comfortable in their ignorance 

  • Blatant lies keep the masses comfortable

11:33 Secession: Is it constitutional? 

14:55 Election of 1800

17:00 Election of 1860

21:20 Is the Supreme Court, the biggest racist in American History? 

27:09 Southern States Seceding 

40:05 Current active secession in the US

44:00 Is there a peaceful path to secession in the US? 

Catch Mike at rebelmadman.com and Addicted to Your Own Destruction 


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23. Scott Horton - The United States Empire - Genocide in Yemen and Beyond

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In this episode, Craig digs deep with Scott Horton about the US government’s direct involvement with the war of genocide occurring in Yemen and the general stirring of the pot by the US in the Middle East. In addition to being the editorial director at antiwar.com, Scott, a self-proclaimed Ron Paul libertarian, is also the founder of The Libertarian Institute and author of the book, Fool’s Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan. Scott shares his insights regarding the culture war aspect in partisan politics and how every president since George H. W. Bush has been the same product with a different brand name. 

Is the war in Yemen designed to create famine? And if so, how did we get there, why, and what should a Christian’s response be to their government’s involvement in such heinous atrocities? 

Timestamps for further exploration: 

1:22 Scott Horton’s background 

6:20 The Culture War Aspect 

11:45 Craig’s transition, beginning in 2000 

13:00 Bill Clinton’s role in the hate for the US found in the Middle East 

  • Are we required to defend Clinton because of patriotism? 

  • Bush’s blue blood 

  • Carole Quigly 

23:00 Trump’s relationship with Wall Street 

25:45 Exploring the problems US involvement causes  in the Middle East 

  • the effect of sanctions 

27:30 What would it take for a libertarian to become president?

32:20 Biden: Zionist agent of a foreign power 

36:50 Yemen: Why are we there? 

  • the effects of US involvement 

Do people have to decide where their priorities lie? God? Or the state? 

Additional links:

The Great Ron Paul, Interview Transcripts 


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22. Brian Zahnd, Kathi Peters, & David Peters - Postcards From Babylon

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For our first podcast of the New Year we sat down with pastor, author, and Comino walker Brian Zahnd and Kathi and David Peters, the founders of Global Stories Films, to discuss their joint project, Postcards From Babylon. Postcards From Babylon is a long-form documentary featuring Brian, as he investigates possibly the most important question for the church in North America today: How does the church stay faithful to the beautiful way of Jesus while situated in one of the most divisive political climates in our nation's history?

If are able and would like to contribute to our Postcard From Babylon Premiere Fundraiser to fund seven tickets, please visit: www.thebadroman.com/fundraiser

Timestamps & staring points for further exploration:

01:07 Kathi’s Background

4:13 David’s Background

  • Media Pastor

  • Independent Filmmaker

  • Making Postcards Documentary

10:19 Christian Nationalism - Trump Worship

10:42  Biran’s Story

12:30 America as a Biblical Babylon 

  • The shift needed in the evangelical church

  • Manifest Destiny Fallacy of Empires

  • Churches and flags

19:10 The film and challenges in production during corona

21:23 Early church and government

  • Constantinian Shift

  • The American Context may be getting worse, but this is not a new phenomena

  • Baptism made early Church strangers in their own worlds

  • World Wars and Nationalism between Christians

  • Trump will be hard to recover from

27:55 Motivation for making the documentary

31:02 Ambassadors for Jesus

  • Limited ability in sharing the gospel, requires consistent messaging as representatives of Christ

  • Calling the church to account

33:15 Political Rhetoric and compromising hope in Christ as King

  • Exiles by baptism

  • Live in the political reality, but don’t belong to it

  • Call to a counterculture of Christ

37:55 Bearing witness for Christ and those who do not yet know Him

  • The Republican party can not be the Christians future

  • Conservative push back: if we are Democrats, the Democrats are in trouble

  • Can like Trump’s policies, but cannot defend his behavior/character

  • Speaking truth to power   

43:22 Staying Faithful to Jesus in a divisive political culture

  • Can it be done through politics?

  • Is the church an alternative politics

    • Perhaps, but this does not mean directly

  • Politics of Sermon on the Mount

53:25 Brian’s plugs

Learn more about Kathi and David’s work on their website or Facebook page.