In this episode, Shane Claiborne joins us to talk about living like Jesus, abortion, gun violence, Christian nationalism, and whether we should get involved in politics as a way to help others live in freedom.
We know the teachings of Jesus, but what does it look like to actually follow them? How can we care for other humans as God instructed, and how can we do that when we live amidst a corrupt and often unjust government? As Shane points out, “If anybody should be suspicious of state power, it should be Christians who worship an executed and risen savior.” Our Lord was killed by the government. We should not trust in our rulers, but in Him, but, as Shane would argue, we can use their system to help people by getting bad policies changed.
Who is Shane Claiborne? He is a radical advocate for living as if Jesus really meant what He said. He heads up an intentional, simple-living Christian community called Red Letter Christians, and is the co-founder of The Simple Way, an intentional neighborhood-based Christian community in North Philadelphia. Shane has been to jail multiple times while advocating for the poor and against war. You can connect with him on his personal website, Twitter, email, and Instagram.
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Timestamps:
1:26 What following Jesus looks like
“Man, I was pretty together, met Jesus, and He messed me up.” -Shane
Teachings like
To be great, become the least
Love your enemies
Sell possessions and give to the poor
Started a community for local homeless people who were being evicted from a church. They
Fix up abandoned houses
Create gardens
Paint murals
Care for neighbors’ needs
7:24 Pro-life or just anti-abortion?
“We shouldn't be in other countries dropping bombs on people” -Craig
One-issue voting is inconsistent
Christians are the obstacle to progress
9:45 A Bible in one hand; a newspaper in the other
Know what's going on in the world around you
“When you look at Jesus, He was talking about the Kingdom of God coming on Earth, as it is in Heaven. Not just something we go up to when we die, but something we bring down while we're alive.” - Shane
Study the Bible and sociology together
11:41 Christian Nationalism
Trump didn’t change the church; he revealed their true beliefs
“A lot of white Christians have been shaped more by whiteness than by Christ.” -Shane
People use the Gospel to justify all kinds of atrocities
Reconstructing the Gospel: Finding Freedom from Slaveholder Religion by Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove
Compare Trump and his policies to The Sermon on the Mount
Christians betrayed Jesus with a kiss for a couple seats on the Supreme Court
Welcome the stranger -- not because you're Republican or Democrat, but because you follow Jesus, and that is His example
“A lot of times it's been more Fox news or a political party that's shaping our imagination than the Gospel” -Shane
Christians wind up saying ugly things like that they want to go to the border and shoot people when they follow Trump instead of Christ
19:15 Nothing new
People fear the transfer of power from white people
They want to take America back; to make it great again
To counteract any progress Black Lives Matter made
Fear and love cannot occupy the same space
“What would America look like if love rather than fear were compelling our policies and shaping our minds on a lot of these things?” -Shane
22:45 Debate: Do we need to get involved in politics to love our neighbor?
Shane: Laws can either improve or destroy people's lives
We need to work to get harmful laws changed for the good of our neighbor
Craig: Politics are not our thing; we're of a different Kingdom
Jesus didn't use politics to advance His agenda
Shane: Opting out has consequences
We're not putting our hope in a politician; we’re voting to change policies that make life harder for our friends
Vote on behalf of those Jesus blessed
The poor, the mourning, the refugees, the incarcerated...
Don't only help them through the ballot. Work every day for their freedom.
Fight for laws that make it harder to kill them
Craig: Ballots don't do that. Voting doesn't change anything and doesn't help anyone.
Shane: We should use every weapon we have; harness the principalities
Craig: Christians live on the fringes of society and shouldn't be involved in the system at all
Shane: Moving to a community with black folks changed my perspective
Dr. King went to jail for political change
“I do believe that the church is a primary instrument for God transforming the world.”
God can redeem the system using us
Legislation helps people flourish
We use it to keep people safe in cars; need for guns too
Jesus judges nations on how they cared for the poor
31:14 The early Church’s politics
They were called atheists because they denied the deity of Rome
They disrupted the empire by claiming another Emperor
But Jesus didn’t kill anyone to overthrow the empire
He died.
And many details leading to His death can be seen as a parody to Caesar’s rule
“If anybody should be suspicious of state power, it should be Christians who worship an executed and risen Savior.” - Shane
Irreconcilable vocations
Brothel, executioner, anyone who had to kill for the state
Jesus said love your enemies, which means not killing them
They were consistently against all violence
Abortion, execution, gladiators…
36:09 Living like Christians
People use the Bible to justify terrible things
We cannot live like a Christian and go against the teachings of Christ
Gandhi wished we would. He liked Jesus, but was not a fan of the church
We should view the entire Bible’s contents through the lens of Jesus
39:13 Guns into Gardens Project; Beating Guns book
Old Testament prophets speak of turning swords into plows
Similarly, turning guns into garden tools
And crosses
One says I want to kill; the other says I’m willing to die
And jewelry for victims of gun violence to wear and sell
People say it's not a gun problem; it's a heart problem
It's both
God transforms the heart; people transform the laws
Jesus should inspire us to protect life
42:04 The American Revolution
Claimed to be following God
If they were, they never would have gone to war
America began with guns. It's impossible to imagine our country without them
How else could they have started a country on stolen land with stolen labor?
42:56 Red-letter Christian Intentional Community
A glimpse of Heaven on Earth
Sharing everything in common end taking care of each other
Reducing gun violence through:
Hospitality
Drug addiction recovery
Lifting people out of the ditch
Figure out what's landing them in the ditch in the first place
It’s often government laws and policies
So we vote and advocate for change
It'll probably land you in jail
Charged with a felony for leaving water in the desert for immigrants
Obey the good laws; disobey the bad ones
Expose how crazy they are by loudly getting in trouble
A rich tradition of civil disobedience
Be willing to suffer the consequences of exposing injustice
Issues around the world
Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan…
We spend more on the military than social uplift and are headed for spiritual death