About this episode
Jordan Blake is the Executive Director and co-founder of The Reckless Saints of Nowhere. He finished his own rehab journey in 2015 and started Reckless Saints with his wife shortly after. They lead a team that destroys barriers for those ready to go through treatment for substance addiction. They go against the status quo to show the love of Jesus to those most of the world finds repugnant. And it works.
No matter who you are, you know someone struggling with addiction — even if you don’t know it. This touches everyone. If it’s not you, it’s your sibling, cousin, teacher, friend, coworker… it's a deadly problem. It needs to be talked about. Shame only keeps people from getting the help they need. Those dealing with it need and deserve our love. If you or someone you know is ready to accept help, go to recklesssaintsofnowhere.com or call (918) 864-2719 to start the process.
Episode Timestamps:
1:35 TJ, Craig’s baby brother
36 when he passed
Had a problem with alcohol
Died September 2020, after 6 months of lockdown
In December, their mom was wishing they’d known about The Reckless Saints of Nowhere before he passed
2:29 Get people to pay attention
Most people don’t notice problems are happening until it’s affecting them personally
3:20 Jordan’s story
Not addicted in an expected way for his community
Which was meth
He had a serious accident and major pain at 12-13 years old
Perhaps the first Oklahoman to be prescribed Oxycontin
Purdue pharma bribed the FDA to say it was non-addictive
Looked like the savior for people’s pain
His kidney was producing 100+ stones/year
One x-ray showed over 40
They didn’t want to remove it and stress the other kidney
Left the hospital with higher and higher doses of oxy
19 surgeries before 20 years old
Including metal insertions
All removable organs removed
The hospital didn’t want to give a kid morphine
Outside the hospital, he wound up on morphine, fentanyl…
On the needle
Hit a US Marshall in the face with a beer bottle during a bar fight
Getting arrested every weekend
… all because he was trying to treat his immense pain
Forced into treatment at 20
By a merciful judge
Let him out of 8 years in federal prison if he’d go
Went to Teen Challenge and Cape Girardeau in Missouri for 15 months
At the beginning of Reckless
Came out of rehab with no desire to help anyone
Wanted to just be left alone and work in a factory
Couldn’t even go on vacation because of the number of drugs he had to take to manage his pain
His veins were collapsing from too much drug use
But everyone in town knew he was a dirtbag and noticed when he went sober
People started asking him for help getting sober
Told him they were scared of dying but didn’t know what to do to prevent it
Crying in the grocery store
(a public space with lots of people around! A nightmare for an autistic person)
He panicked about that one and tried to talk the guy out of asking him for help
He told the dude he didn’t want to do it the popular way because there was only a 4% success rate
He said he’d do whatever Jordan told him to
The guy detoxed at Jordan’s house and they headed to Teen Challenge in the morning
But they wouldn’t let him in without $800-1000 entry fee
“I couldn’t get them to understand: If he had $8, it would be up his arm. He doesn’t have $800.” - Jordan
When someone who’s addicted says they want treatment, you gotta jump on that moment
Not make them come up with almost $1,000 first
So Jordan paid for 5 or 6 guys to get in before he ran out of money
He gave out his phone number and got like 200 calls for help within a month
Going into drug dens trying to talk people into recovery
Led to a broken nose
Knives pulled on him
But also guys choosing treatment
So, Reckless started as a treatment financing program
But he started dating Vanessa, and she helped him make a nonprofit so volunteers could do some of the work
Instead of him working 50 hr/wk and running around the country in between shifts
3 months later, they were married
Goal of Reckless: overcome obstacles to treatment
Entry fee
Transportation
Might single-handedly be keeping Greyhound in business
Finding a bed
Waitlists
Vanessa made a network so different organizations can put their availability
Support
Started a hotline
Place about 5-6 people per day in treatment
Over 7,000 total
Never had to turn anyone away
13:18 Funds
Several churches giving $100/month
But entry fees are $1,000 per person
Drugs are a huge problem in the US
Could easily blow through a billion and make a small dent
Apparel company in the basement
Brings in $300-500,000/year
All goes to getting people into treatment
Parents take out 2nd or 3rd mortgages to get their kids into $30,000 programs
15:17 Reckless rehab
Gathered strategies from different programs that work
90% success rate
Now looked to as industry leader
But made a lot of mistakes
Fought a lot of battles
The first person trying something always faces the most adversity
16:41 Who can help an addict?
Did TJ not listen to his family because they had never been addicted?
Addicts know they have a problem
But they have to reach a moment of clarity
You don’t have to experience someone’s pain to acknowledge and help with it
But someone who has been addicted can call bullshit and wake a person up
The loved ones’ pain is just as real, and can only be felt by them
The addict and their family may never understand each other
But they can still love each other
20:47 Grim Reaper
The police department gave Jordan this nickname
They arrest someone for drugs
Don’t book em right away
They either agree to go with Jordan
And likely get better
Or the cops find them dead within the week
People don’t call Reckless till they’ve run out of options / hit bottom
Only maybe 10-20% of people they try to help accept it
That means 8 or 9 / 10 people die or get worse
Reckless staff stopped going to all those funerals
It had become all they did
He can honestly tell people, “This is the last conversation I’ll get with you. You’re either gonna die or you’re gonna come with me.”
The only way he can sleep at night is to tell it to them straight
Some have assaulted him for it, but it’s their only chance, so he keeps doing it
The truth hurts
24:14 Families of the addicted
“In the case of your brother, there’s nothing you did wrong. There’s nothing you should have done.” - Jordan
People don’t want to think their loved one needs help
Even after telling a dad that heroin addicts fail 97% of the time to recover on their own
The dad said, “Maybe my son will be in the 3%”
And got the son a hotel room to stay in
Where he died of an overdose
“Failure means death.” - Jordan
The father was distraught and blaming himself
Jordan told him, “Your son died because of your son. And that had nothing to do with you. That was a conscious decision made by him that resulted in his death.”
26:34 Emotions of the addicted
Huge highs and very low lows
On the verge of swinging from the smallest trigger
Guilt and shame
Even when families give love unconditionally, addicts hide
TJ chose not to share what he was doing with Craig
Even though the love would not have changed
28:09 Vulnerability in sharing personal stories
“I promise anybody that's listening to this, you know somebody in your life, whether it's a friend or family member, that is struggling with this.” - Craig
Feel exposed
Extra nerve-wracking to have been an IV drug user
People think you’re gross
Categorize you with sex offenders
Despised and rejected
Jordan thought no one would want to hear from him
But the more honest he was, the more people came asking for help
“There's not a lot of ‘real’ being offered out there right now. And people recognize it. They jump all over it.” - Jordan
Random advice tidbit: “If you're gonna be successful, surround yourself with people that are never impressed by you. That’s my secret.” - Jordan
Abby tells Craig when he’s being stupid
Jordan’s wife is not blown away when he designs a new shirt or makes money
Just don’t beat men down or they’ll fail then too
32:38 Bringing it back to Christ
The same way Jordan calls addicts out on their crap, the Bad Roman calls out Christians
Been there
Understand where they’re coming from
Jesus healed
Offered people a way out
Eradicated shame and guilt
Offers hope
Reckless Saints of Nowhere is doing God’s work!
Nobody talks about this issue
That’s why it’s so important
There’s so many voices
So much misinformation
So many people trying to make money by offering “recovery”
There’s no accountability
They can legally
Bring in people who’ve been arrested
Get them a job
Give them a raise
Take the paycheck for a year
Let them keep the job at the lower wage
Often label themselves as Christian
Reckless doesn’t attack them
Simply keeps living better
Saving money for their clients instead of stealing
The cheaters hate them
Same as Bad Roman
“What you guys do, trying to draw a line between patriotism and evangelicalism in America, is a suicide mission.” - Jordan
People have always come to God asking him to support their agenda
He flies no man’s flag
In 2016, Jordan said it was scary that neither candidate even pretended to fear God
Everyone freaked
Said he hated Trump
And loved Hilary
He’s a registered republican
“In the American Christianity Bible belt, you don’t fight good vs evil.” - Jordan
He told his coworker he understood why women were hesitant to vote for Trump
Lover of Hilary!!
And all of ^ that ^ is exactly what spurred the start of The Bad Roman Project
Christians backing Trump no matter what he said or did
“If either one of them feared God, they wouldn't be running to rule over somebody else.” - Craig
40:50 Operating closely with the state without joining them
It’s necessary if you want to exist and be able to help people
Health and Human Services 501c3
Non-religious organization
Being religious cuts off access to people in jail
Separation of church and state
Can’t court order someone to go to a church-based program
Run on Gospel principles
Every client has gone through faith-based program
Statistically more successful
Can’t argue with that
Preach everywhere
Take no money from the state
Salvation Army and Red Cross got in trouble doing this
The state’s money is so easy to get, most churches do it
Grants
They wonder why the Gospel is compromised
It has to be or they’ll cut off your funding
Insidious funds infiltrate and change your organization
Work with system to get people out of the system
The IRS pushed back
But Reckless is 90% successful
Why would they close them?
Got to keep their health organization status
Keep working in the jails and mental hospitals
It’s the sick who need a doctor
Ruled that they could keep it, but were cut off from state funding
How could they do that to us?
Oh, wait. We don’t have any state funding
And never will
Reckless won, but the government wrote the letter like they lost
44:55 “Christian” logos
“If you want to honor God with your work, don't put a cross on every pair of shoes you make. Just make a really good pair of shoes.” - Martin Luther, paraphrased
Jesus Fish
A guy asked for a logo design with the fish
Jordan asked him why
So everyone who sees their sign knows they’re Christian
How about treat them with dignity and see if they figure it out?
“It's an appearance of Christianity, but it's not Christianity.” - Jordan
“You drive around in Oklahoma, [and] there's a hundred churches in every square block. And yet the city's burning to the ground around it in addiction. These two things can't coexist. If Christ is present, there is freedom.” - Jordan
Marketing a business as Christian is exclusionary
It doesn’t attract non-Christian customers
It tells people to stay away if they don’t share your beliefs
“It's gotta be about Christ and it's gotta be about helping people or what benefit are we getting from it?” - Jordan
48:11 Rebellious?
“Live a life that gets people asking you questions of why you're living that way.” - Craig
It used to be that being a Christian meant anarchy was implied
Acting outside the norm
Dragging addicts out of drug dens rather than waiting for them to come
Have tattoos
Not rebels
True Christians live a life of submission
Modern day rebellion
“Be a rebel again. Turn off your TV, get married, stay married, start a family. Be present for that family. Think for yourself, teach your kids to think for themselves, buy land, and love your neighbors. Even the ones you disagree with.” - Tim Kennedy
It’s now considered rebellion to live basic Christian values
The Baptists don’t approve
“The gospels [are] not the thing that unites them. They’re not even talked about.” - Jordan
If you fall in love with Christ rather than their system of rules and strict beliefs, you will be ostracized
Attending church
Craig doesn’t because he was judging everyone
He knew they wouldn’t like the Bad Roman
He didn’t want to be that person
So, the Bad Roman Discussion Group has Zoom church
It’s about community
Jordan attends all kinds
Mennonite, different Baptist flavors..
Also prone to judging
Chooses to walk in with Jesus, ready to love His people
Extra judgy when churches present their budget
Reckless minimizes overhead to reach more people
Churches seem to do the opposite
“Let’s hire more people”
Like 90 pastors on staff, each with a different specialty
Craig was at a broken church
The denomination brought in someone to heal it
He said they had to raise more money
A pastor would never stay on that salary
Craig never returned or gave money to a church again
59:22 Reformers by nature
God has given the Bad Roman and Reckless a job
Not afraid to walk against the status quo
Martin Luther’s qualms
Clergy
Budget not going to care for the needy
America
We’ve lost the hurt and needy
Church used to take care of them
God ordained us to care for orphans and widows
It wasn’t a suggestion!
We gave that job to the state because we didn’t want to do it
BUT it is not our job to fix the messed up church
That is God’s bride
He’s the only one big enough to fix it
We can call her out
Jordan called out Teen Challenge for partnering with the state
They got mad because he’s one of their success stories
And therefore cannot speak against them because he is doing well
But who else can speak to what they do, if not a graduate?
Cannot reform the church from the outside
We want to get back to the teachings of Christ
That is reformation.
Churches are panicking because people are leaving
But we’re just rethinking what church really is
What does following Jesus look like?
Must leave the culture of control and divisiveness to find Him
“People are no longer satisfied with an agenda with biased information.” - Jordan
1:03:15 Authenticity
That’s what’s missing from American society
We weren’t always afraid of failure
The church won’t move because they’re scared of the blowback if they fail
People wanting to start ministries have to be counseled
When you fail, are you prepared for everyone to see you look stupid?
The church is now an institution
Which is never good
Fears information
Fears failure
All about power and control
1:04:15 Motivation
Love
“I’m telling you the truth because I love you.” - Craig
It’s not because we love to fight people about this stuff
We’re still open to listen
Love has to be evident in your life
So when you speak the truth, it is backed by love
It’s not just about your delivery of the words
It’s that your lifestyle proves you care
When we know someone loves us, they can speak truths
1:06:13 The Reckless Saints of Nowhere name
Jordan is from Boatman, OK
The government decided they weren’t big enough
Took their township
No more post office
No more zip code
Now, the kids go to school in one town and the police come from another
People started calling it ‘nowhere’
Also dog town
People abandoned their dogs there
Rough, sketchy trailer park area
Moved back there after rehab
Brand new Christian
Made all sorts of mistakes
But God had his heart fully
Spurgeon has a quote
The moment you submit to Christ, you are as much a saint as Peter
Churches didn’t like it
Didn’t want a tattooed dude who cussed a lot and hung out with drug addicts to claim the same God/religion as their pompous selves
He wasn’t even trying to appear perfect
A bit reckless
They do stuff proper people never would
They have not yet been made perfect
Just as much saints as the well-behaved
And grew up in a non-town known as nowhere
Actually, an old lady called them that as an insult, and it stuck
Being ostracized by the churches there forced them to lean hard into Jesus
Wouldn’t trade the faith they developed from that
1:09:52 Moved from Nowhere
Jordan was planning to stay there till he died
A deep love for that community
Snake Invasion
One in the back fridge
One dropped from a tree by his son
Accident
Pothole
Blew bearings out on a motorcycle
Popped tire
Scraped up his face
Road rash
“I love this town, but it does not love me back”
Still visit and work their all the time
1:10:55 T-shirts
All designed by Jordan
Except one
Timmy (the shirt Craig wore for the show) is no longer available
Jordan was always promising people he’d pay their fees
Saying the check is in the mail
One time, he promised $10,000 worth
And there was not a penny in the bank
But God provided
Nothing was late
Shirts were a way to have funds more regularly
They’ve grown to have a professional shop in town
Run by a friend
Addicts help with printing process
“Every single person that buys. A reckless shirt or donates online – they're as much a part of Reckless as my own beating heart.” - Jordan
The money paid for a shirt is directly connected to saving a life
1:14:08
Reckless works in nearly every state
“If you're a drug addict in the United States of America, it's either because you want to be, or you've never heard of the reckless saints.” - Jordan
Chose t-shirts because people actually pay to advertise for you by wearing it
The team does every part of the process
So, if you’re shirt comes a bit late, they’re probably working with a lot of people or traveling a lot
It’s a rescue team that happens to also print shirts
Craig likes to wear his shirt to the gym
CrossFit donated to Reckless
So some of the guys could participate
1:20:14ish Get help
Hotline: 918-864-2719
No answer?
Leave a detailed voicemail
“We may not be undefeated, but we have never lost a rematch.” - Jordan