About this episode

Jordan Blake is the Executive Director and co-founder of The Reckless Saints of Nowhere. He finished his own rehab journey in 2015 and started Reckless Saints with his wife shortly after. They lead a team that destroys barriers for those ready to go through treatment for substance addiction. They go against the status quo to show the love of Jesus to those most of the world finds repugnant. And it works.

No matter who you are, you know someone struggling with addiction — even if you don’t know it. This touches everyone. If it’s not you, it’s your sibling, cousin, teacher, friend, coworker… it's a deadly problem. It needs to be talked about. Shame only keeps people from getting the help they need. Those dealing with it need and deserve our love. If you or someone you know is ready to accept help, go to recklesssaintsofnowhere.com or call (918) 864-2719 to start the process.

Episode Timestamps:

1:35 TJ, Craig’s baby brother

36 when he passed
Had a problem with alcohol
Died September 2020, after 6 months of lockdown
- In December, their mom was wishing they’d known about The Reckless Saints of Nowhere before he passed

2:29 Get people to pay attention

Most people don’t notice problems are happening until it’s affecting them personally

3:20 Jordan’s story

Not addicted in an expected way for his community
- Which was meth
He had a serious accident and major pain at 12-13 years old
- Perhaps the first Oklahoman to be prescribed Oxycontin
  - Purdue pharma bribed the FDA to say it was non-addictive
    - Looked like the savior for people’s pain
- His kidney was producing 100+ stones/year
  - One x-ray showed over 40
  - They didn’t want to remove it and stress the other kidney
- Left the hospital with higher and higher doses of oxy
- 19 surgeries before 20 years old
  - Including metal insertions
  - All removable organs removed
- The hospital didn’t want to give a kid morphine
- Outside the hospital, he wound up on morphine, fentanyl…
  - On the needle
  - Hit a US Marshall in the face with a beer bottle during a bar fight
  - Getting arrested every weekend
  - … all because he was trying to treat his immense pain
- Forced into treatment at 20
  - By a merciful judge
    - Let him out of 8 years in federal prison if he’d go
  - Went to Teen Challenge and Cape Girardeau in Missouri for 15 months
At the beginning of Reckless
- Came out of rehab with no desire to help anyone
  - Wanted to just be left alone and work in a factory
  - Couldn’t even go on vacation because of the number of drugs he had to take to manage his pain
- His veins were collapsing from too much drug use
- But everyone in town knew he was a dirtbag and noticed when he went sober
  - People started asking him for help getting sober
    - Told him they were scared of dying but didn’t know what to do to prevent it
    - Crying in the grocery store
      - (a public space with lots of people around! A nightmare for an autistic person)
      - He panicked about that one and tried to talk the guy out of asking him for help
      - He told the dude he didn’t want to do it the popular way because there was only a 4% success rate
      - He said he’d do whatever Jordan told him to
      - The guy detoxed at Jordan’s house and they headed to Teen Challenge in the morning
    - But they wouldn’t let him in without $800-1000 entry fee
    - “I couldn’t get them to understand: If he had $8, it would be up his arm. He doesn’t have $800.” - Jordan
    - When someone who’s addicted says they want treatment, you gotta jump on that moment
    - Not make them come up with almost $1,000 first
    - So Jordan paid for 5 or 6 guys to get in before he ran out of money
    - He gave out his phone number and got like 200 calls for help within a month
    - Going into drug dens trying to talk people into recovery
      - Led to a broken nose
      - Knives pulled on him
      - But also guys choosing treatment
    - So, Reckless started as a treatment financing program
      - But he started dating Vanessa, and she helped him make a nonprofit so volunteers could do some of the work
        Instead of him working 50 hr/wk and running around the country in between shifts
        3 months later, they were married
- Goal of Reckless: overcome obstacles to treatment
  - Entry fee
  - Transportation
    - Might single-handedly be keeping Greyhound in business
  - Finding a bed
    - Waitlists
    - Vanessa made a network so different organizations can put their availability
  - Support
    - Started a hotline
- Place about 5-6 people per day in treatment
  - Over 7,000 total
  - Never had to turn anyone away

13:18 Funds

Several churches giving $100/month
- But entry fees are $1,000 per person
- Drugs are a huge problem in the US
  - Could easily blow through a billion and make a small dent
Apparel company in the basement
- Brings in $300-500,000/year
  - All goes to getting people into treatment
Parents take out 2nd or 3rd mortgages to get their kids into $30,000 programs

15:17 Reckless rehab

Gathered strategies from different programs that work
90% success rate
Now looked to as industry leader
- But made a lot of mistakes
- Fought a lot of battles
- The first person trying something always faces the most adversity

16:41 Who can help an addict?

Did TJ not listen to his family because they had never been addicted?
Addicts know they have a problem
- But they have to reach a moment of clarity
You don’t have to experience someone’s pain to acknowledge and help with it
- But someone who has been addicted can call bullshit and wake a person up
- The loved ones’ pain is just as real, and can only be felt by them
  - The addict and their family may never understand each other
    - But they can still love each other

20:47 Grim Reaper

The police department gave Jordan this nickname
- They arrest someone for drugs
  - Don’t book em right away
    - They either agree to go with Jordan
      - And likely get better
    - Or the cops find them dead within the week
People don’t call Reckless till they’ve run out of options / hit bottom
- Only maybe 10-20% of people they try to help accept it
- That means 8 or 9 / 10 people die or get worse
  - Reckless staff stopped going to all those funerals
    - It had become all they did
- He can honestly tell people, “This is the last conversation I’ll get with you. You’re either gonna die or you’re gonna come with me.”
  - The only way he can sleep at night is to tell it to them straight
    - Some have assaulted him for it, but it’s their only chance, so he keeps doing it
      - The truth hurts

24:14 Families of the addicted

“In the case of your brother, there’s nothing you did wrong. There’s nothing you should have done.” - Jordan
People don’t want to think their loved one needs help
- Even after telling a dad that heroin addicts fail 97% of the time to recover on their own
  - The dad said, “Maybe my son will be in the 3%”
  - And got the son a hotel room to stay in
    - Where he died of an overdose
      - “Failure means death.” - Jordan
      - The father was distraught and blaming himself
      - Jordan told him, “Your son died because of your son. And that had nothing to do with you. That was a conscious decision made by him that resulted in his death.”

26:34 Emotions of the addicted

Huge highs and very low lows
- On the verge of swinging from the smallest trigger
Guilt and shame
- Even when families give love unconditionally, addicts hide
  - TJ chose not to share what he was doing with Craig
    - Even though the love would not have changed

28:09 Vulnerability in sharing personal stories

“I promise anybody that's listening to this, you know somebody in your life, whether it's a friend or family member, that is struggling with this.” - Craig
Feel exposed
Extra nerve-wracking to have been an IV drug user
- People think you’re gross
  - Categorize you with sex offenders
- Despised and rejected
- Jordan thought no one would want to hear from him
  - But the more honest he was, the more people came asking for help
“There's not a lot of ‘real’ being offered out there right now. And people recognize it. They jump all over it.” - Jordan
Random advice tidbit: “If you're gonna be successful, surround yourself with people that are never impressed by you. That’s my secret.” - Jordan
- Abby tells Craig when he’s being stupid
- Jordan’s wife is not blown away when he designs a new shirt or makes money
- Just don’t beat men down or they’ll fail then too

32:38 Bringing it back to Christ

The same way Jordan calls addicts out on their crap, the Bad Roman calls out Christians
- Been there
- Understand where they’re coming from
Jesus healed
- Offered people a way out
- Eradicated shame and guilt
- Offers hope
- Reckless Saints of Nowhere is doing God’s work!
Nobody talks about this issue
- That’s why it’s so important
- There’s so many voices
  - So much misinformation
  - So many people trying to make money by offering “recovery”
- There’s no accountability
- They can legally
  - Bring in people who’ve been arrested
  - Get them a job
    - Give them a raise
  - Take the paycheck for a year
  - Let them keep the job at the lower wage
- Often label themselves as Christian
- Reckless doesn’t attack them
  - Simply keeps living better
    - Saving money for their clients instead of stealing
  - The cheaters hate them
  - Same as Bad Roman
    - “What you guys do, trying to draw a line between patriotism and evangelicalism in America, is a suicide mission.” - Jordan
    - People have always come to God asking him to support their agenda
    - He flies no man’s flag
    - In 2016, Jordan said it was scary that neither candidate even pretended to fear God
    - Everyone freaked
- Said he hated Trump
- And loved Hilary
- He’s a registered republican
- “In the American Christianity Bible belt, you don’t fight good vs evil.” - Jordan
- He told his coworker he understood why women were hesitant to vote for Trump
  - Lover of Hilary!!
- And all of ^ that ^ is exactly what spurred the start of The Bad Roman Project
  - Christians backing Trump no matter what he said or did
  - “If either one of them feared God, they wouldn't be running to rule over somebody else.” - Craig

40:50 Operating closely with the state without joining them

It’s necessary if you want to exist and be able to help people
Health and Human Services 501c3
Non-religious organization
- Being religious cuts off access to people in jail
  - Separation of church and state
    - Can’t court order someone to go to a church-based program
Run on Gospel principles
Every client has gone through faith-based program
- Statistically more successful
  - Can’t argue with that
Preach everywhere
Take no money from the state
- Salvation Army and Red Cross got in trouble doing this
- The state’s money is so easy to get, most churches do it
  - Grants
  - They wonder why the Gospel is compromised
    - It has to be or they’ll cut off your funding
- Insidious funds infiltrate and change your organization
Work with system to get people out of the system
The IRS pushed back
- But Reckless is 90% successful
  - Why would they close them?
- Got to keep their health organization status
  - Keep working in the jails and mental hospitals
    - It’s the sick who need a doctor
- Ruled that they could keep it, but were cut off from state funding
  - How could they do that to us?
    - Oh, wait. We don’t have any state funding
    - And never will
  - Reckless won, but the government wrote the letter like they lost

44:55 “Christian” logos

“If you want to honor God with your work, don't put a cross on every pair of shoes you make. Just make a really good pair of shoes.” - Martin Luther, paraphrased
Jesus Fish
- A guy asked for a logo design with the fish
  - Jordan asked him why
    - So everyone who sees their sign knows they’re Christian
    - How about treat them with dignity and see if they figure it out?
“It's an appearance of Christianity, but it's not Christianity.” - Jordan
“You drive around in Oklahoma, [and] there's a hundred churches in every square block. And yet the city's burning to the ground around it in addiction. These two things can't coexist. If Christ is present, there is freedom.” - Jordan
Marketing a business as Christian is exclusionary
- It doesn’t attract non-Christian customers
- It tells people to stay away if they don’t share your beliefs
“It's gotta be about Christ and it's gotta be about helping people or what benefit are we getting from it?” - Jordan

48:11 Rebellious?

“Live a life that gets people asking you questions of why you're living that way.” - Craig
It used to be that being a Christian meant anarchy was implied
Acting outside the norm
- Dragging addicts out of drug dens rather than waiting for them to come
- Have tattoos
Not rebels
- True Christians live a life of submission
Modern day rebellion
- “Be a rebel again. Turn off your TV, get married, stay married, start a family. Be present for that family. Think for yourself, teach your kids to think for themselves, buy land, and love your neighbors. Even the ones you disagree with.” - Tim Kennedy
- It’s now considered rebellion to live basic Christian values
- The Baptists don’t approve
  - “The gospels [are] not the thing that unites them. They’re not even talked about.” - Jordan
  - If you fall in love with Christ rather than their system of rules and strict beliefs, you will be ostracized
Attending church
- Craig doesn’t because he was judging everyone
  - He knew they wouldn’t like the Bad Roman
  - He didn’t want to be that person
  - So, the Bad Roman Discussion Group has Zoom church
- It’s about community
- Jordan attends all kinds
  - Mennonite, different Baptist flavors..
  - Also prone to judging
  - Chooses to walk in with Jesus, ready to love His people
  - Extra judgy when churches present their budget
    - Reckless minimizes overhead to reach more people
      - Churches seem to do the opposite
      - “Let’s hire more people”
      - Like 90 pastors on staff, each with a different specialty
    - Craig was at a broken church
      - The denomination brought in someone to heal it
      - He said they had to raise more money
      - A pastor would never stay on that salary
      - Craig never returned or gave money to a church again

59:22 Reformers by nature

God has given the Bad Roman and Reckless a job
Not afraid to walk against the status quo
Martin Luther’s qualms
- Clergy
- Budget not going to care for the needy
America
- We’ve lost the hurt and needy
  - Church used to take care of them
  - God ordained us to care for orphans and widows
    - James 1:27
    - It wasn’t a suggestion!
    - We gave that job to the state because we didn’t want to do it
- BUT it is not our job to fix the messed up church
  - That is God’s bride
    - He’s the only one big enough to fix it
  - We can call her out
    - Jordan called out Teen Challenge for partnering with the state
      - They got mad because he’s one of their success stories
      - And therefore cannot speak against them because he is doing well
      - But who else can speak to what they do, if not a graduate?
  - Cannot reform the church from the outside
    - We want to get back to the teachings of Christ
      - That is reformation.
    - Churches are panicking because people are leaving
    - But we’re just rethinking what church really is
      - What does following Jesus look like?
      - Must leave the culture of control and divisiveness to find Him
      - “People are no longer satisfied with an agenda with biased information.” - Jordan

1:03:15 Authenticity

That’s what’s missing from American society
We weren’t always afraid of failure
- The church won’t move because they’re scared of the blowback if they fail
- People wanting to start ministries have to be counseled
  - When you fail, are you prepared for everyone to see you look stupid?
The church is now an institution
- Which is never good
- Fears information
- Fears failure
- All about power and control

1:04:15 Motivation

Love
- “I’m telling you the truth because I love you.” - Craig
It’s not because we love to fight people about this stuff
- We’re still open to listen
Love has to be evident in your life
- So when you speak the truth, it is backed by love
- It’s not just about your delivery of the words
- It’s that your lifestyle proves you care
- When we know someone loves us, they can speak truths

1:06:13 The Reckless Saints of Nowhere name

Jordan is from Boatman, OK
The government decided they weren’t big enough
- Took their township
- No more post office
- No more zip code
Now, the kids go to school in one town and the police come from another
People started calling it ‘nowhere’
- Also dog town
  - People abandoned their dogs there
Rough, sketchy trailer park area
Moved back there after rehab
- Brand new Christian
- Made all sorts of mistakes
- But God had his heart fully
- Spurgeon has a quote
  - The moment you submit to Christ, you are as much a saint as Peter
- Churches didn’t like it
  - Didn’t want a tattooed dude who cussed a lot and hung out with drug addicts to claim the same God/religion as their pompous selves
  - He wasn’t even trying to appear perfect
A bit reckless
- They do stuff proper people never would
- They have not yet been made perfect
Just as much saints as the well-behaved
And grew up in a non-town known as nowhere
Actually, an old lady called them that as an insult, and it stuck
Being ostracized by the churches there forced them to lean hard into Jesus
- Wouldn’t trade the faith they developed from that

1:09:52 Moved from Nowhere

Jordan was planning to stay there till he died
- A deep love for that community
Snake Invasion
- One in the back fridge
- One dropped from a tree by his son
Accident
- Pothole
  - Blew bearings out on a motorcycle
    - Popped tire
  - Scraped up his face
    - Road rash
“I love this town, but it does not love me back”
Still visit and work their all the time

1:10:55 T-shirts

All designed by Jordan
- Except one
Timmy (the shirt Craig wore for the show) is no longer available
Jordan was always promising people he’d pay their fees
- Saying the check is in the mail
- One time, he promised $10,000 worth
  - And there was not a penny in the bank
  - But God provided
    - Nothing was late
- Shirts were a way to have funds more regularly
They’ve grown to have a professional shop in town
- Run by a friend
  - Addicts help with printing process
“Every single person that buys. A reckless shirt or donates online – they're as much a part of Reckless as my own beating heart.” - Jordan
- The money paid for a shirt is directly connected to saving a life

1:14:08

Reckless works in nearly every state
“If you're a drug addict in the United States of America, it's either because you want to be, or you've never heard of the reckless saints.” - Jordan
Chose t-shirts because people actually pay to advertise for you by wearing it
The team does every part of the process
- So, if you’re shirt comes a bit late, they’re probably working with a lot of people or traveling a lot
  - It’s a rescue team that happens to also print shirts
Craig likes to wear his shirt to the gym
CrossFit donated to Reckless
- So some of the guys could participate