The Bad Roman Project

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76. "What about Romans 13?" with Matt Mouzakis

About this Episode

Craig is joined by Matt Mouzakis, worship pastor and co-host of Expedition 44, a popular theology podcast where the ancient languages and context of the Bible are discussed. Matt is doing his doctorate in New Testament studies, specializing in the passages often cited by Christian statists when they want to defend strict obedience to the government.

Matt explains how words like submit (hypotassesthō), and concepts like paying taxes take on very different meanings when placed in their proper context. Read Romans 13 through the eyes of a first-century Jew, see it in a fresh new light, and be prepared to confound the next statist who asks you, "But what about Romans 13?".

In fact, the only one to whom people owe allegiance and should be under the authority of is Jesus Himself. When we desire to put another into power over ourselves and our neighbors, it is a sin because humans are not to have authority over one another.

Craig and Matt delve into those passages used against women in ministry. Again, we discover that read in the context of the time and in their original language, nothing suggests women are to be subject to men in God's kingdom. We find God's ideals at the beginning and end of the Bible, and that is God alone reigning over humanity.

Expedition 44:

YouTube

Website

Covenant Theological Seminary

Expedition 44 episode on Romans 13

Ryan's book: This is the Way

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Episode Timestamps:

1:54 – Who is Matt Mouzakis?

  • Worship pastor at "Bapticostal" church

  • Father of 4

  • Theology geek doing Doctorate in New Testament

  • Co-host of Expedition 44 podcast with Dr Ryan (Head Chair of Biblical Studies at Covenant Theological Seminary

  • Expedition 44

    • Discuss the ancient context of the Bible

    • Salvation is a journey "expedition" 

    • The separatist ancient Essene community gave themselves the number 22

      • God doubles the portion, which is where the 44 comes from 

8:15 – The Church of Nationalism

  • American pastors don't speak against the entanglement of Christians and the state

    • Sometimes they advocate for candidates

    • The early church was outspoken against the Roman Empire

      • But it is glossed over these days

  • Churches seek power through the state now

  • There's no basis in the Bible for Christians to be seeking any power

    • We need no king but Christ

  • Politics comes into your theology

  • Some would say that representative government is different from serving another king

  • In the first two pages and last two pages of the Bible is where you find God's ideals

    • Everything in the middle is messed up

  • Humans are not to have authority over one another

    • Not even men over women

  • On the last page of the Bible, you see men and women under God's authority

    • That's God's ideal

    • That should inform our politics

  • We are ambassadors from another King

    • Our government has its own kingdom

  • The fall is the "defilement of all of creation"

    • There are multiple falls in the Old Testament

    • When people usurp God's authority, humans rule other humans

      • That is not a part of God's ideals

18:58 – Women in Ministry

  • A topic that is spoken about on Expedition 44

  • Women were the first to tell of Jesus' resurrection

    • The men were in hiding

  • Paul was very egalitarian

  • When we don't look at the Bible in context, it gets confusing

  • If Genesis 3 is reversed in Jesus, the church should reflect that

  • The local context of Paul telling women to be quiet was an all-women-led cult

  • Right before that, he tells the men off for being angry

    • None should have authority over others in the church

  • The women were trying to teach before they had learned

  • Greek tenses matter in better translation

  • Keith Giles's episode about women and the church

  • Women stayed at home and were less educated in Paul's day

    • Women were to learn but not interrupt the service

  • 1 Corinthians 14: 34-35 might be an error added to the text based on a scribble by a scribe

26:16 – Romans 13

  • The words "submit" and "obey" are two different words

  • Romans 13 is the go-to for opponents of "No King but Christ"

  • Romans 13 should be read in light of Romans 12

    • The chapter breaks weren't there originally

    • Romans chapters 12-16 should be read as a chunk

    • All the things that Jesus said about enemy love do not fit with Romans 13

  • Romans 13:1 & 5 Submit is hypotassesthō

    • Defined as voluntary yielding

  • Obey God is hupakouó

  • David Bently Heart – New Testament

    • It is necessary that we obey God rather than man

  • The Bible should be read as a whole

    • The whip that Jesus used was a common tool to heard animals

      • He didn't harm any people

      • He was angry at the extortion in the temple

  • The gospel spreads by word of mouth too

  • "Governing authorities"

    • A common expression for anyone with authority

      • Not necessarily government

    • The people of the day were in Rome

      • A place of multiple layers of governing 

      • Neighborhood watch role, rather than law enforcement

      • Rome wasn't taxed at the time when Romans was written

  • Romans 13:1 - exousia means evil powers

    • And appears in Ephesians 6:12

    • Paul understood demons controlled the empires

    • Jesus didn't rebuke Satan when he offered Him the kingdoms of the world

    • Deuteronomy 32 – Moses says God divided mankind and gave them to the sons of God

42:18 – Is voting a sin?

  • 1 Samuel 8

  • Craig has concluded that voting is a sin

    • Jesus said the gentiles lorded power over others, but we were not to be the same

    • God said it was not Samuel that was rejected, rather it was God Himself

      • Rejecting God is a sin

  • Sleeping is better than exercising power over others

  • Matt and Steve discussed whether or not Christians should vote

    • The desire to have a king is to reject God

    • Voting is the desire to put someone in power over ourselves and neighbors

      • Therefore, voting is a rejection of God


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