In this episode, Craig speaks with Patrick Carroll about his article If You Vote You Can’t Complain. Their discussion explores topics on suffrage in Canada and the United States and possible answers to why voters seem to be growing more and more apathetic to participating in the democratic system. 

They explore the problem with “defensive voting” and how it may not be disrespectful to the past to refrain from casting your ballot every 2-4 years. In the midst of a Presidential Election in the US, this episode is an offering to listeners to consider what a vote is, who gives you that right, and who’s Kingdom you may be endorsing by participating in a system that upholds its power through force. 

Timestamps and links to start learning more:

01:10 Who is Patrick Carroll

• Jordan Peterson

• Bubble Zone Laws - Ontario

• Libertarianism (3:34) 

• Non aggression principle

• Larken Rose

• Anarcho Capitalism

04:05 What prompted Patrick to write his article “You Can’t Complain if You Vote”

• Response to you can’t complain if you don’t vote

• Voting as complicity in system you are complaining about

06:26 Explaining low voter turnout

• Voter turnout for the USA is around 58% (Craig guess of 50% was close!) 

• Voter turnout for Canada is - trends

• Is your vote statistically significant?

• Ridings in Canada 

  • Trends

• How different are political parties?

  • Illusion of choice in politics (opinion piece)

11:29 Let’s (anarchist/voluntaryist) talk to the nonvoters

• Building a movement

• The political apathetic 

  • How many are there?

• Explore political philosophies and systems

  • Rethinking what drives the systems we live in

15:54 Speaking to individuals vs. groups

• Individualism vs collectivism

19:45 Relationship between individualism/collectivism and fallacy of representation

• Foundation of Economic Education(FEE), Out of Frame series written by Sean Malone

  • Avatar episode

• Suppression of the minority by the majority in democracy

  • Partisan politics and representation

  • Tyranny majority over the minority and individual  

• Ayn Rand - the smallest minority on earth is the individual

23:38 Justin explains Canada’s political systems and issues he has seen in elections

• Canadian government - how it works

• Popular vote vs. who actually wins

• Government actually represents a small (partisan) subset of the population

26:10 Popular vote vs. who actually wins in US politics 

• The 2016 election

• Cities vs. rural political leanings

• Electoral college

  • Each state has their own presidential election

27:55 Response to “why you should vote” i.e. people have died for the vote, disrespect to suffrage movements, ect.   

• Is it disrespectful to ask politicians to rule over your neighbors?

• Is voting important?

• Positive rights vs. negative rights

  • Positive rights means someone else has a corresponding responsibility (similar to entitlement)

  • Negative implies someone has to not do something e.g. Freedom of Speech means others have to not interfere with your speech

• The “right” to vote only exist in context of the state

  • Is right to have say in how you are ruled

• Misnomer to call voting a right

  • The “right” to vote only exist in context of the state

    • Can be seen as right to have say in how you are ruled

• Respecting people starts by not ruling over people, which, on the contrary, voting supports

33:11 Is America following the constitution? 

• “Defensive voting” not possible as voting legitimizes the State

• Is America following the constitution? 

  • Actions vs. integrity

• Living Constitution vs. Originalism

  • Undermining the principle of Law itself

• George Washington undermines oath to Constitution - Whiskey Rebellion

37:07 Voting and Slavery

• Larken Rose video 

• “Asking your master implies it is their choice...legitimizing their role as master”

• Being principled is most pragmatic approach, “defensive voting” compromise principles

• Abolitionist movement was uncompromising

  • Anything less than total abolition of slavery was not sufficient

• Being ruthlessly principled is the way of Jesus

  • Example: He could have gone on military conquest and overthrown the Romans

• Lysander Spooner on defensive voting 

41:27 We need to stop pretending

• Can a broken system fix itself?

  • Does it have an interest to?

• What message does showing up at the poles send?

 44:30 Patrick’s Plugs

• Blog

• Facebook Page

• Patrick’s article If You Vote You Can’t Complain